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This file was generated by Descript <www.descript.com>

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Suraj: Yes.

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Okay.

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Boro: Yeah.

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Well, I am Boro Baski.

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I am from Bishnubati, Santal Village which is 10 kilometers away from Visva-Bharati University, Shantiniketan, which Rabindranath Tagore founded, and 160 kilometers away from Kolkata.

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So, I work in an NGO, Ghosaldanga Bishnubati Adibasi Trust since last 30 years.

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And we have been working with several programs, including education, health, child and women healthcare.

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We have tree plantation program.

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We have agriculture.

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We have bio-farming and cultural activities and so on.

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Yeah, I live in the village with my parents and we have a group of people with whom I am working since many years now.

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Suraj: Okay.

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Thank you for that introduction.

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So I think many of our listeners, especially those not familiar with Indian context will not have been familiar with the terms, Adivasi communities or specifically the Santal community.

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So I was hoping you could tell us a little bit about what those words mean and what words you like to use to refer to your community.

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Boro: Yeah, Adibasi the commonly translated term of Adivasi is the original inhabitant or the indigenous people of India.

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And in collective, I think the tribes of Indian subcontinent, we call Adivasi.

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And Santal is one of the largest homogenous tribal group among 705 different tribal groups of the country.

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They consist about 10 million and are spread over several states of India, like Jharkhand, Odisha, Bihar, West Bengal, Assam, and even outside the India, in Bangladesh and Nepal.

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According to modern development indicators, such as health, education, life expectancy rate, and per capita income santal is one of the least developed communities of our country.

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Suraj: So in recent years, you've and actually as you had said, for quite a long time you've been doing work in the community, including work in schooling, in museums to preserve culture, in thinking about the script and medium of students learning.

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So to start with, it would be lovely to hear about your journey, Mr.

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Boro, from what kinds of experiences made you come back to this work?

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What made you decide to focus on education?

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Specifically sort of your story.

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Are you there?

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Boro: Yeah, I am here.

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Suraj: Did...

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Boro: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Can you hear me?

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Suraj: Yeah, yeah.

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Boro: Yeah.

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Actually, it's a long journey, as I said, about last 30 years.

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And this is the initiative that have come up, is actually not a pre-planned idea.

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It is just the way I grew up, and the problem I've faced until I met and gradually the project got it safe.

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And as I said, I grew up in a village, Bishnubati and as a normal santal child.

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And I used to look after our cows and goats, and roam around in the nearby jungle and rivers.

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And I had two brothers and one sister.

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I'm the eldest and my brother had been to school, but my sister never went to school as she was for working with my parents, the local brick kiln to support me and my brother's studies.

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So my mother's family were converted Christians.

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And they've the trend of sending the children to school.

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One day, my uncle came and asked my mother, if she was ready to send her son to a boarding school in the town.

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Everybody agreed in our family except my aunt, who said, "I don't want that our child get lost after having education," because I was the first boy from our village who went to school.

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So we had no school in the village, and I was the alone that I got this proposal.

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So finally, I was sent to a Christian boarding school, which is 40 kilometers away from our village.

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And it was there my world beyond our village opened up.

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In the mission school I got used to with the city life, the football, the indoor games, electricity, ceiling fan, and become conscious about health and hygiene and disciplined life.

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In the boarding school, we were forced to talk to Bengali or English.

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And whoever spoke in mother tongue was punished.

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My uncle used to pay my hostel fees, was reluctant to bring me home during long vacations feeling that I would forget my studies by mixing with the village friends.

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So in between, an accident happened, my uncle was paying my fees in the hostel, his wife suddenly died, and I had to return to my village permanently and my parents were unable to pay my hostel fees.

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After staying 10 years in the boarding school, out of my village, when I returned back to my village, I found myself in odd situation.

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I felt alienated from my friends and villages.

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Though I could speak my mother tongue, yet I felt that unseen wall had been created between us.

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I have forgotten many things that I learned before going to boarding school and did not know many things that a boy of my age was supposed to know.

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For example, I did not know the basic work in the family and in the field works such as cooking, feeding the cows and pigs clamping on the palm trees, swimming, plowing, and so on.

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I also did not know how to play various type of musical instruments, drums, and flute, making various type of fishing and hunting traps.

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I used to feel embarrassed among the family members when I could not utter the name of the relationship while greeting them, or cannot respond to the queries from my members, as I did not know if the relationship with him or her falls in a respectful or joking relationship.

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So this is the first phase that I have experienced when a child go out from his village to the town and grew up in a different culture and how he gets isolated.

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So coming back, I felt that I have to relearn again.

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I have to re-educate myself in the village life, the village community rules and regulations, I have to learn again.

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And I started working with my parents in the agricultural field.

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And also I went to the construction site in the town to work.

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And, but again, I felt it was too much for me.

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So I said, I will start again.

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It was, I was in class seven that time.

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So again, I got admitted in the school, but my parents did not understand the problem that is going on in between, because they could not understand.

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It was beyond their imagination and experience.

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So that is how life was going on.

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A big turning point in my life actually happened when I met a German scholar, Mr.

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Martin Kempson at a railway station.

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I was going to Burdwan to visit my friend from boarding school.

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And I was waiting for the train and from the gentleman who was studying in the Visva-Bharati University and on the train, we discussed about an hour and he was going back to Germany in the summer vacation.

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And that first meeting, and from that, eventually we become friends and this meeting actually became a long term working relationship also.

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And when I completed my studies, I studied masters, I did my masters in social work.

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One day, he called me Boro, what do you want to do with your life?

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And I said, yeah, I need a job to support my family.

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And he said, look, I have got some amount from the last will from one of my well wishers in Germany for village development work.

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And I'm still wondering how to spend that amount for good cause.

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And he also said he did not want to spend the money in any normal charitable work or to somewhere, give where it really matters.

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And finally, he asked me if you can also have this amount, if you want and can do something for your community, for example, to start a school in your mother tongue Santali.

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And to address a problem that you have been through of having education through foreign language in Bangla.

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And yeah, and that striked me and I discussed with my college mate Gokul Hansda and some of my friends Snehadri and some villagers.

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And it was in 1996 that we started a school, a non-formal Santal school.

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Rolf Schoembs Vidyashram we named the school after the gentleman, Rolf Schoembs, who donated the amount to Martin Da for village development activities.

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So in the beginning, our main aim was to address the problem santal children face in the government schools for which they become drop outs.

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The problems are identified, we identified the problems related to language, curriculum, and method of teaching.

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In the government schools, most of the teachers are Bengali and thus teaching given in Bangla language, whereas the Santal children speak in their mother tongue at home so they hardly understand Bangla.

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Therefore, the communication between the teachers and the students hardly took place.

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The student used to loss their interest in studies and prefer to look after their cows and goats or helping their parents in the daily house or chores.

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So this is the beginning and gradually, and also other problems that I said the curriculum and the method of teaching too, was based on the need of the majority Bangla children and not the Santals and other linguistic minority children at least in the government schools.

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Suraj: So Mr.

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Boro, I just want to say, of course you can't see my face, but please know I'm listening nodding along very, I really appreciate what you're saying.

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And as you keep going, I would love to hear so language, the difference in language is quite straightforward, but what about the curriculum and the method of teaching was not aligned to some of the needs of the Santal children?

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Yeah.

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[internet disconnect and repeat] So you had said that the language and the curriculum and the teaching methods all were aligned to the majority Bengali students.

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Yes.

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And language is quite obvious how that would be, but what about the curriculum and the teaching methods?

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Boro: Yeah.

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Curriculum, as I said, that most of the subjects that they learn in the schools are based on the Bengali environment, none of the house, the pictures, the pictures of a lady or a mother, there's the Bengali lady, that's written mother and foods and dress.

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Whereas the Santal family and the parents have a different dresses and food habits and method of teaching the teachers in the government school are trained.

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We have a teacher training school, they are trained to teach how to address the problems of the majority children, but how to overcome the problems, the minority children, linguistically minority children face, they are not trained for that.

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So these tribal children or the Santal children are basically, they have no option, but to attend those schools and slowly they become dropout when they lose their interest.

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So we felt these problems need to be addressed.

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And this is the problem that I do have experienced in my own life.

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So, to address these issues, we began to develop our own curriculum and method of teaching, whereas Santal children can learn through their own mother tongue Santali in the beginning and gradually they will move over to Bengali.

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For example, in Bengali we learn 'au’ for ‘ajagar’ which means snake.

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but when a Santal children see that picture, he says, "what is 'Ajogar'?"

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It is called 'bing' in Santali.

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Again, for ‘aa’ it is written ‘aam’ and there is a picture of mango ‘aa’ for 'aam', but for Santal child ‘aam’ is ‘you’ and the picture is of ‘ool’ means mango.

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So it is very confusing for a small child who does not know Bengali language..

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First he has to understand that this 'ool' is called 'Aam' and from it is related to this letter.

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So we have developed our primers, whereas we have put pictures with Santali words in bengali scripts.

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For example, 'Au' for ‘aurah’' 'Aa' for 'Aargom' like that.

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And it's very easy for them because first they recognize the picture, then come to the word and gradually we also develop the primers.

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Santali reading primers instead of reading 'maa amake bhaat dau' mother please give me food.

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So if a child utter this sentence without knowing it, he doesn't get joy in it, but when he speaks 'Maa dakanj joma' Mother, I want to have food, ah, what, a joy.

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So this kind of small sentence in Santali and we started to develop and they enjoy it.

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Even the rhymes, we also include our folklore our history because in most of the schools, the student learn about the history India.

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We learn about Tagore, Gandhiji or Shantiniketan everything, but we don't learn about our own history, one life on heroes.

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And this is sometime with, we feel that it is, we are de-santalizing them, de-culturizing them.

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And so this way we develop our own primers and included our history folklore and gradually the children got their interest.

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And it was in the beginning the parents also were reluctant about to accept our idea because they thought these children have to go to the Bangla school or have to attend, learn English, and Bengali in their life later and why to teach them in Santali.

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So, but later on, when they saw that their children are doing good in high schools and they are growing up very confidently and they don't want to miss their classes and their schools.

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And their parents also felt, there is something good over there that is why our children are going.

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And slowly now we have near about 93 students and children are coming from 12 different villages of our area.

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So this is how things began.

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And after running this school for 10 years, we realized that we are having some problems.

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And that problem is that when these children come out from their school, they cannot adjust in the government school.

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So we had to open the evening coaching centers in different schools to guide them, to help them.

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And can you hear me?

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Suraj: Yes.

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Thank you.

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Boro: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I think you can understand what I'm saying.

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Suraj: Yes.

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I think this is, that's very illuminating.

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So to rephrase sort of that question.

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So you've been doing this work for a long time now.

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How has, what has changed in your thinking or what have you noticed over that period that maybe you've changed your thinking?

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Or perhaps if there's anything that has surprised you in this work?

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Boro: Yeah, they actually, over the time we gradually included our programs, according to the need I said.

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Then after, after the school final, we realized that unless these children or the students are established in their professional life or get employment this mere this degree, or will not help them, benefit them.

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So if we start a vocational course, so after school final, according to their knack, and their interest, we guide them to take various types of trades.

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And so they establish themselves and somewhere and start earning, because that is very important.

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And that is why we also included agriculture in our school because the Santal community, the way of life is so much connected with agricultural cycle.

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And it is very sad to see that in the schools or in our education, we don't find any reflection of these areas.

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And this is where they feel confident.

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And so we included biofarming, we've included fisheries.

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We have bee keeping, we have monsoon cultivation, we have food processing and all this, so that from while in the school, they can get to know, they get to know all these trades.

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And later on, if anybody wants to continue he and she can do that.

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And that is one thing.

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And this way, again, we, so now many of our students after completing the studies, now they are working in different fields.

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If some of them are, of course, studying higher education, studying in the university.

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We also encourage them.

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If you see that he has that talents and final inclusion that we have is the museum, because we felt that tribals, those who are deeply rooted with their culture, their education cannot happen in isolation.

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We cannot, education cannot happen without their culture.

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We should include them because that is their way of life.

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So education and culture cannot be separated that way.

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And if we do so, we feel that will be incomplete and that will be one sided.

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So we started to encourage them in keeping their culture, music, dance, and dramas, and established a museum where we have exhibited more than 150 items related to the trace, dress ornaments, hunting equipments, musical instruments, and agricultural equipments.

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And our students go there regularly to learn and to see, because nowadays after introduction of the schools in the villages, the children don't get the normal way to acquire their indigenous knowledge and skills.

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Before, they used to learn normally from their parents and from their old people.

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But since now, they have to go to the school and time table has totally changed we have to do it in organized way.

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And museum is that place where the students go regularly.

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It's like a class in every, we have a different class visit different day.

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And they learn their culture and the history that they have.

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And this museum is located in the village and the villagers themselves are looking after that museum, we call it a community museum and the villagers, they have donated these items for the museum and the students take care of that regularly.

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If some visitors come, the students show them around and this boost up their self confidence and their pride.

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And through this museum, we also receive guests from Shantiniketan, from Kolkata.

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And through this museum, our neighbors, immediate neighbors, those who have no idea, or very little idea about Santals or distorted idea that Santals only drinks, sing and dance, and they don't want change.

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So this is the idea that have been portrayed over the years through various films, on Bengali novels or art films.

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And we have to break this stereotype and notion, and we want to show the world that we are beyond that.

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We have our own culture, we have our own history.

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And so this museum also connect us with outside world and through our culture and tradition, we want our children to want a world keeping their roots intact and accept what is over there in the world.

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So this is the basic concept of education that one should grow up from its own roots, from knowing to unknown, from known to unknown from gradually and he will branch out to the world.

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He will learn different languages and culture, but without losing his or her roots.

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Suraj: I really appreciate that definition of education.

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And I appreciate what you've said also about education and culture being inseparable.

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So I feel that you've told us this story and we can see how the various pieces from the school to the museum go together.

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And it sounds like there has been a lot of success in these projects, what have been some of the biggest challenges in doing this kind of work?

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Boro: Well, first challenge, of course, the idea that education through mother tongue and to include the culture.

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So that is the, and that challenge came from our own people because they could not, the villagers in the beginning could not understand the need of learning through mother tongue and inclusion, their culture in education.

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As I said earlier, that argument was since the children anyway have to deal with Bangla and English throughout their lives and why to teach them in Santali.

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So it took several years to make them understand that learning through mother tongue help their children in keeping rooted with their culture and heritage and help them get a broader understanding of the subject what they study.

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And as I said, the tribals are deeply rooted with the language and culture.

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And secondly, I think to inspire youth to start an individual enterprise rather than to run for ready made job is also a big challenge.

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So still in our education and everywhere, we always tell our students, you study, you have to get a job.

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You have to go to the city, you have to go to town.

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So when we are talking about this idea to strengthen your own strength, you grow up with your own strength with your own trades that you have.

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Then sometimes it seemed to them and too many, even the teachers also that we are actually working or talking against the trend.

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So that is, that is another problem.

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And other problem is that we also could not prepare many women leaders who can take the lead in the decision making process.

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In our committee of course we have some women members, but still we feel that we need more and we couldn't prepare that.

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And yeah, we feel pity that government still does not encourage this type of small development initiatives.

00:34:08.784 --> 00:34:22.159
Government officials sometimes come to see our project and appreciate our work, but do not take any step to implement them the idea elsewhere.

00:34:22.710 --> 00:34:35.009
So if government would have taken or work in this line, at least we could have done something.

00:34:35.009 --> 00:34:38.170
We could work in other places.

00:34:38.500 --> 00:34:45.540
Actually, we don't go to other villages and work, we inspire the people of other villages.

00:34:45.809 --> 00:34:56.100
We go and support them and I think you have got online, offline.

00:34:56.100 --> 00:34:58.530
Can you hear me?

00:34:58.530 --> 00:34:59.490
Suraj: No, I can hear you.

00:35:00.580 --> 00:35:00.950
Boro: Okay.

00:35:01.009 --> 00:35:01.219
Suraj: Okay.

00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:01.769
It's good.

00:35:02.040 --> 00:35:02.450
So...

00:35:03.030 --> 00:35:04.589
Boro: You were saying other villages.

00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:11.630
Yeah, because we don't go to other villages and start working there.

00:35:11.790 --> 00:35:13.660
We don't expand that way.

00:35:13.910 --> 00:35:23.580
We invite other people to come to our village, see the projects, stay with us and start in your own area in your own village.

00:35:24.340 --> 00:35:28.960
So we always inspire them to take lead in their own work.

00:35:29.010 --> 00:35:37.319
So that way we expand and yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:37.319 --> 00:35:39.020
These are some of the major problems.

00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:40.109
Suraj: Yeah.

00:35:40.129 --> 00:35:40.569
Thank you.

00:35:42.139 --> 00:35:51.010
So as you told that story, I saw that there are a lot of different reactions from the community itself, from the government and so on.

00:35:52.540 --> 00:35:56.950
So you had already mentioned that you were influenced by Dr.

00:35:56.980 --> 00:36:09.980
Martin Kaempchen and I wonder if there are any other specific works or role models, thinkers, theories, schools of thought people, communities that have influenced your work in thinking.

00:36:10.030 --> 00:36:12.680
And even if you want to tell us more about Dr.

00:36:12.680 --> 00:36:14.079
Kaempche’s ideas.

00:36:15.309 --> 00:36:23.580
How, who do you look to as sort of the people whose ideas you draw on or build on, or who have otherwise influenced you?

00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:29.510
Boro: Yeah, Dr.

00:36:29.510 --> 00:36:40.190
Martin actually was the first person who first triggered us with this idea.

00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:59.120
And after that, we have visited so many schools throughout India in Jharkhand, even in south India, in Kerala, Tamil Nadu even we went to Bangladesh, I went with some of our teachers to visit this kind of special project, how they're working.

00:37:00.120 --> 00:37:08.060
And yeah, they are, all are doing very good job in their own way.

00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:22.830
But we didn't find anybody working among the Santals and with this method, with the community people, because we are actively involved with the community and we live in the people.

00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:26.959
So I didn't, we didn't find that.

00:37:27.639 --> 00:38:15.130
But when you talk about idea, I think I would say, Rabindranath Tagore because I studied in Shantiniketan and he believed to learn from the nature and to work with the people, because he used to say that to do the development work, you don't, it is you have money, you have time that is not enough that you can do work with the people, but you have to have the right to work with them.

00:38:15.130 --> 00:38:15.553
You have to have the right to work with them.

00:38:15.553 --> 00:38:17.870
Then only you can bring the change.

00:38:17.870 --> 00:38:27.875
So he already started one project in Sriniketan rural re-construction project many years ago.

00:38:28.310 --> 00:39:03.473
And how he was working in the villages, going to them with the agriculture and same method and that inspired us and development without keeping with their way of life, keeping with education should not be alien thing and it should be part of the life.

00:39:03.473 --> 00:39:15.080
If education cannot be experienced, so that education has no value.

00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:24.270
People life, how they're living, they have to give importance to their life also.

00:39:25.410 --> 00:39:27.089
And it's a long term process.

00:39:27.089 --> 00:39:28.749
Even it takes generations.

00:39:29.179 --> 00:39:36.309
Education, it's not a term bound project or three or six months or one year project.

00:39:37.099 --> 00:39:41.669
So yeah, Tagore influenced us a lot.

00:39:44.770 --> 00:39:45.459
Suraj: Thank you.

00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:59.560
So you have already talked a little bit about the reaction from government officials and from people outside of Santal communities may have these incorrect perceptions of the communities.

00:39:59.570 --> 00:40:15.960
So I wonder if you think about talking to educators and teachers and government officials outside of Santal communities, what do you feel they need to know about Santal communities or about Adibasi knowledge systems that maybe they don't know right now?

00:40:15.990 --> 00:40:21.969
What might need to change in their thinking about these communities for educators?

00:40:26.549 --> 00:40:47.410
Boro: We feel that to work with the Santals I think one has to know the language, which is very important because through the language you can connect with them immediately.

00:40:56.349 --> 00:41:11.120
And the idea that we get from the main media or through the films or through the stories, and most of the cases Santal life have been romanticized.

00:41:11.130 --> 00:41:16.750
They work and live in the jungle, they drink rice wine, they dance all the life.

00:41:16.770 --> 00:41:27.570
So this is how we have been portrayed in the films and this how has instilled in our mindset, especially in the, I would say Bengali mindset.

00:41:28.430 --> 00:41:38.710
So if somebody wants to work them, you have to live with them, you have to learn their history, their...

00:41:40.080 --> 00:41:40.420
Suraj: Hello?

00:41:42.300 --> 00:41:42.750
Boro: Yeah.

00:41:44.070 --> 00:41:44.660
Suraj: I really appre...

00:41:45.720 --> 00:41:45.760
Boro: Hello?

00:41:47.070 --> 00:41:47.570
Suraj: Say again.

00:41:49.059 --> 00:41:49.930
Boro: Yeah, yeah.

00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:52.609
Can you hear me now?

00:41:52.910 --> 00:41:53.310
Suraj: Yes.

00:41:53.310 --> 00:41:54.060
I can hear you.

00:41:54.090 --> 00:42:01.520
I really appreciate your patience with this, you were talking about this romanticized view of Santal communities.

00:42:02.990 --> 00:42:03.560
Boro: Yes.

00:42:03.580 --> 00:42:19.910
And I think I would suggest that if the teachers and even the government can develop different method of teaching for the adivasi children, not only the santals.

00:42:21.160 --> 00:42:31.280
Other, there are so many tribes Adivasis in India, I said more than 700 different tribes and they have their own different distant language and culture.

00:42:32.059 --> 00:42:37.149
So it's, Santal is the largest one.

00:42:37.560 --> 00:42:52.000
So we need a different method of teaching and teachers should be trained, especially to address the problems of the Santal children.

00:42:52.859 --> 00:42:57.140
And there should be different teachers training center.

00:42:58.160 --> 00:43:17.437
And there should be a different school because we are still 1% of total, more than 1% of Indian population, 10 million, more than 10 million.

00:43:17.437 --> 00:43:32.390
So unless we set up a separate school for the separate method of teaching and different curriculum and schools through their mother tongue, because the language also carries on the culture.

00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:36.400
It's, without language, culture cannot survive.

00:43:37.200 --> 00:43:51.700
So these other aspect we have to focus and first government have to realize that yes, these linguistically minority communities are having problem.

00:43:53.150 --> 00:44:28.490
And until now I think these address, these problems have been not been addressed seriously, not from the government and not from, I don't see that of course there are so many provisions given in the constitution, in the education formula, where in the beginning community minority children can learn through their mother tongue have their through their books, but that is not being implemented well.

00:44:30.310 --> 00:44:36.520
So the problem is still there.

00:44:37.380 --> 00:44:44.029
And government have to has look this very seriously this problem.

00:44:47.350 --> 00:44:47.810
Suraj: Huh.

00:44:48.220 --> 00:44:56.240
So I will just to be respectful of your time, I'll take us through sort of the last few questions.

00:44:56.250 --> 00:45:05.569
So the first thing is that with everybody we've been sitting with, we've offered them an opportunity to talk about how COVID-19 has changed some of their work.

00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:10.490
And some people can have chosen to skip this question and some people answer it.

00:45:10.490 --> 00:45:12.140
So I want to give you the opportunity.

00:45:12.370 --> 00:45:17.729
If you have anything about COVID-19 in santal communities or how it shaped your work?

00:45:17.770 --> 00:45:20.299
I want to offer you that opportunity.

00:45:20.720 --> 00:45:31.060
Boro: Well, COVID pandemic has affected our school and other development initiative very badly, I should admit that.

00:45:32.059 --> 00:46:00.197
And as if we have gone back to the time when we started our works, it took years and even a generation to develop the culture of going to school.

00:46:00.197 --> 00:46:00.526
And also the mindset of the people of the parents that the education can bring changes for good.

00:46:00.526 --> 00:46:02.390
So it took so many years to develop all this.

00:46:03.070 --> 00:46:21.810
And now after the closure of schools, for nearly two years, the students have gone back to the profession of their parents, are working in the fields, looking after their cows goats and hunting birds and mice, catching fish and snakes.

00:46:22.429 --> 00:46:29.470
So they have gone back to their own traditional life again, because that is also their comfort zone.

00:46:30.180 --> 00:46:30.807
They feel very confident there.

00:46:30.807 --> 00:46:54.370
And during this pandemic view they have also experienced that it is the agricultural life that supported them so much because people, those who were in the cities and towns, they lost their jobs and the, sure…

00:46:54.530 --> 00:47:08.280
And so you know what happened in the cities and towns, but in the villages, those were working in the fields they went on working during this period also.

00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:19.509
And they did their, of course, when restriction was eased a bit in between, they lived their normal life.

00:47:20.889 --> 00:47:32.980
So in the villages, also they used to say, "No, we are fine because this is the life, our way of life saved us from the pandemic".

00:47:33.750 --> 00:47:45.890
So this boosted their confidence and that yes, the agricultural life is so important for us.

00:47:46.750 --> 00:47:47.750
Yes, very important.

00:47:48.000 --> 00:48:07.049
But at the same time, the other side of the life to see the education and that we are talking about the development that has affected a lot, and this is very sad.

00:48:10.349 --> 00:48:11.850
Suraj: Thank you for sharing that.

00:48:12.780 --> 00:48:19.980
So I feel that this was, again, I appreciate you persevering through our technical difficulties.

00:48:20.030 --> 00:48:23.899
I feel that we got a good picture of your own experience.

00:48:23.930 --> 00:48:31.679
And then some of the initiatives you have set up to work with Santal children and how those have worked and what kinds of reactions people have had.

00:48:32.299 --> 00:48:58.640
I would like to offer you if there's anything else about either your work or your own experience doing this kind of teaching and education, or just in general, if there's things about Santal communities, Adivasi communities and education learning and teaching that we haven't had the chance to talk about, is there anything else you would like to address or add?

00:49:00.680 --> 00:49:25.540
Boro: Yeah from my personal realization is that the development, this work is also my journey of my life, you know, when the school gradually started growing, I also gradually grown up with it.

00:49:26.200 --> 00:49:41.560
So it's development is also my development and through this project and through the different people, different layer of people who are connected with this project came.

00:49:42.210 --> 00:49:48.039
And I think I have enriched myself a lot.

00:49:48.119 --> 00:50:10.210
I have never known this life, even though I am a Santal myself, but you'll never know better unless you are with the problems and you yourself are involved working in it.

00:50:10.850 --> 00:50:16.980
So since I am throughout this journey, so this is not only my journey.

00:50:16.990 --> 00:50:25.370
This is the life story of many of our team members, because many of us are working together for 30 years.

00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:28.100
So this is our life story also.

00:50:28.100 --> 00:50:28.480
This is also story of our journey of life.

00:50:36.460 --> 00:50:37.530
Suraj: Yeah, that's lovely.

00:50:37.530 --> 00:50:39.439
I appreciate that sentiment.

00:50:41.799 --> 00:50:42.430
Well, Mr.

00:50:42.430 --> 00:50:45.339
Boro, again, thank you so much for sitting with us.

00:50:45.460 --> 00:50:49.610
I feel that it has been very illuminating to hear about this work.

00:50:49.940 --> 00:51:02.690
And also some of the ways that you've talked about education and culture, education is having to be not an alien thing, but some be rooted in one's own community and then grow outward.

00:51:03.020 --> 00:51:08.180
I think will really be some good food for thought for our listeners.

00:51:09.389 --> 00:51:12.640
And I recognize we've had some technical difficulties today.

00:51:12.640 --> 00:51:21.880
So I really appreciate your participation even as you kept having to be kicked off and all, and not being able to see me.

00:51:21.880 --> 00:51:25.330
But I find this all very, very interesting.

00:51:25.330 --> 00:51:27.520
I'm really appreciating the work you do.

00:51:27.520 --> 00:51:31.690
And the things that you've shared today in terms of next steps.

00:51:32.009 --> 00:51:39.060
The first thing is, of course, as I mentioned in my email, we have a grant and we would love to pay you as a token of our appreciation.

00:51:39.410 --> 00:51:48.870
And so what I'll send, what I'll do is I'll send you a form and the ways we can pay you is either if you have an electronic account, like a PayPal or a Zelle, we can pay you that way.

00:51:49.150 --> 00:52:07.320
But if not, we can, we send a check and so do let us know which of those you'd like, I'll send you a follow up, but if neither of those works, we can also look for another way, because we're quite committed to making sure that we express our gratitude to you taking the time.

00:52:08.120 --> 00:52:19.730
Also, what will happen now is we will transcribe the interview and we will wind up putting it on a website in the next, sometime in the next eight months or so before June.

00:52:19.730 --> 00:52:25.510
And we will email you that transcript and the video so that you have those copies for your records, but also you can look them over.

00:52:25.510 --> 00:52:32.919
And if there's anything you see that you say, "Oh, well I wouldn't want that on the website.

00:52:32.920 --> 00:52:34.080
Maybe don't include that."

00:52:34.080 --> 00:52:35.850
We're of course happy to remove it.

00:52:36.940 --> 00:52:39.120
So really whatever works for you.

00:52:40.260 --> 00:52:47.900
And again, just really grateful for you taking the time on a Saturday night to sit with us and tell us about this really powerful work.

00:52:48.219 --> 00:53:07.130
Oh, also in that survey, what we'll do is, so I send you this follow up to give us your payment information, I'll also ask you in that survey for a brief biography and if there's any hyperlinks or information or programs that you'd like listed alongside your interview.

00:53:07.340 --> 00:53:10.940
So already you sent me a lot of papers that I had read.

00:53:11.170 --> 00:53:21.180
So anything you'd like to see listed alongside your interview, where our readers can read more about your work and about these communities and issues, feel free to include those as well.

00:53:22.529 --> 00:53:22.919
Boro: Fine.

00:53:23.190 --> 00:53:23.550
Fine.

00:53:25.240 --> 00:53:25.589
Yeah.

00:53:26.040 --> 00:53:27.950
Well thank you Suraj probably again.

00:53:28.670 --> 00:53:38.170
I think it was a very good discussion and it's a very enriching experience for me too.

00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:44.384
And yeah, I think you just send me and I'll see.

00:53:44.384 --> 00:53:52.080
And we are in contact, so that will be no problem.

00:53:52.650 --> 00:53:53.180
Suraj: Yes.

00:53:53.200 --> 00:53:53.879
Perfect.

00:53:53.950 --> 00:53:55.409
Again, thank you so much.

00:53:55.420 --> 00:53:56.662
I really appreciate this.

00:53:56.662 --> 00:54:11.780
And this has been a very, very illuminating part of our interviews and I will of course follow up and send the subsequent information and throughout if you write anything new or you think of anything, of course, feel free to email me.

00:54:12.790 --> 00:54:14.099
Again, really appreciate it.

00:54:14.099 --> 00:54:15.410
And it's really nice to meet you.

00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:17.960
Boro: Okay, good.

00:54:18.470 --> 00:54:18.930
Thank you.

00:54:19.020 --> 00:54:20.200
Thank you so much Suraj.

00:54:20.290 --> 00:54:20.670
Suraj: Okay.

00:54:20.710 --> 00:54:21.390
Thank you.

00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:23.340
Boro: Okay, bye.

00:54:24.200 --> 00:54:24.330
Suraj: Bye.

00:54:24.540 --> 00:54:24.710
Boro: Bye.

00:54:24.710 --> 00:54:24.720
Bye.