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This file was generated by Descript <www.descript.com>

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210225_SALSRC_Farah-video: Hello, Dr Farooqi.

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Oh, I gotta Finally, talking to you.

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I think I need to take a few moments to just relax and.

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come to terms with the reality.

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Can I just take a second.

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Just to make sure that.

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it's getting recorded and that we're just doing fine.

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Okay.

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This is great, and I hope it is okay to record this.

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yeah.

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And, of course, like we will get back to you with the edited version and the transcript.

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And only after you consent will be.

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Shared it with the larger group.

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So right now it's just going to stay within our small group.

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For our own watching and understanding, everything that you would be sharing with us.

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So i'm going to briefly introduce myself, because this is the first time we have met.

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And I would also give you the opportunity to do the same, and then we can get started with the questions that we have planned for today.

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So i'm Gayithri Jayathirtha and i'm basically from Bangalore.

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Right now, I have been a student at the University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia USA but, before this I had done my education in Bangalore.

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I was in the computer science domain, so I continue to work in computer science education, that is my primary research area.

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But, of course, like being here as an international student has also triggered a lot of questions about my own identity in the space and how I relate to teaching and learning and what it even means to do some of the work as an educational researcher.

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and

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That is why this project, where we a group of students have come together to ask these questions and at the same time to kinda like decolonize or decenter the Western frameworks, the Western gaze we have had all these years.

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At least that's what the literature feels like when somebody has to get introduced to educational research.

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On, so we are trying to shift the gaze just by talking to folks like you who have had like vast experience either researching or doing work on the ground or both.

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We just want to collect your perspectives, of course we understand fully that.

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Even if there are like hundred individuals it's by no means representative of the work that's going on in the subcontinent and that these are just going to be hundred different perspectives.

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So coming from that background, today I would love to talk to you about your own practices, your perspectives and your experiences of doing the work that you have done all these years.

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and, especially, we are very keen on understanding what has equity meant to you in this work and how you have pushed.

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the boundaries of status quo to center and to bring focus on some of the concerns on equity in India as it exists in your context with the people whom you work and how you have kind of worked with that in.

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Your research and practice, so thanks for joining

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us today.

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yeah.

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Yes, Gayithri as you might be knowing presently I am working.

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In the Faculty of education, Jamia Milia islamia, which is a central university situated in Delhi.

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And i've been associated with this university for the last 13 years and before that.

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For 8 long years I worked with lady sriram college, which is Delhi University and.

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For a smaller time for about a year or two with NCERT so that is what my teaching.

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and learning experience has been.

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With these different institutions as far as my what you call as research.

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and writing is concerned, I started quite late in the sense that.

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I was bringing up children and teaching.

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So, being a woman has its own limitation apart from advantages but yeah so I started writing only.

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when I reached almost

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my you know I entered into my 40s.

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That is just you know 12 to 13 years back.

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Though I have been, before that, I wrote for textbooks, I was associated with.

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NCERT textbooks after national curriculum framework 2005 but doing my own bit.

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Actually

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As you would have seen my work is a little different because.

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I...

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And this is the kind of work that I will continue to do.

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i've been a practitioner so...

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and documented my experience so my work did not start with sampling and choosing a site and then going and recording so yeah.

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This is it and.

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In 2009 I came to jamia in 2006 in 2009 I got an opportunity to get associated with the.

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Government aided school, which is situated in the walled city of Delhi.

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And I became its manager and.

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For six long years I was the manager of this school and later, I still continue to be on its managing committee.

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So.

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This is the work that.

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I did, of

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Trying to bring about

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Some positive changes in this school trying to build up relations with people and

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And of course documenting the little changes that happened in the school and studying the locale of the school.

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So, for more than 12 years now

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I

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have been working and studying this school.

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So, and this school, let me tell you briefly, it is, it is more than 100 year old educational institution which started as a madrassa.

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And was run by.

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Some Abdul Rehman, before partition as a madrassa, but when partition happened and the person who was the owner of this place and in charge of running the madrasa , so he migrated to Pakistan, and he gave the key of the institution to Dr Zakir Hussain

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Who was at that time, the Vice Chancellor of our university and he started a school in that premises and

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This school was later taken up by a society which still continues to run three schools in Delhi one is the school the Sheffield memory school that I worked with and

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To our.

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One is Anglo Arabic school, which is more than 300 years old educational institution, beautiful institution and one self financed school, which runs in the same

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campus as Anglo Arabic school.

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So these three institutions.

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Now since, as I told you, Dr Zakir Hussain was the Vice Chancellor of our university.

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At the time when the school started in 1948 so whosoever is now the Vice Chancellor of our University in his or her honorary position is also the chairperson of

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Delhi Education society and is responsible for running these three schools and so that is how I got the opportunity to get associated with this school because I’m Vice Chancellor.

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And the President of the society so yeah it was a rare opportunity and clearly, you know I think some understanding that I have of education and so because of my association with that school.

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Fantastic yeah we will definitely delve into this, as we continue, but this was

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I think, a very interesting contextual information that

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i'm glad we went through.

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So

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If you want to like, we can start talking about like one specific project that you have taken up and then maybe we can get to like talking more broadly about different projects that you have done.

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So if you were to like

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pick one of the projects either like the recent one, or something that's close to your heart or something that you feel is representative of your work.

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Could you talk a little more about the community that you work with, the population that you work with, the geography, I think you kind of pointed at some of these when like you were just mentioning.

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details about your project and how you got associated with the school, but if you want to get a little more in depth, that would be also very helpful so.

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yeah actually.

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The school, as I said, lies on the

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Very close to the walled city and

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on the fringes of what used to be earlier called Shahjahana Bagh

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and

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So that is where it

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is located.

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But yeah, I must tell you a little about

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it's locale.

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The areas around the school the mohallas as they're called.

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These mohallas include Bada Hindu Rao and Nayi Basti, Hata Kitara

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and

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Prasad Pura and these areas.

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Are Muslim majority areas and.

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Earlier, now the the areas that I have mentioned the total about.

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More than 90% or.

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95% of people who reside in these areas are

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Mostly Muslims and the.

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Population as the urbanization the way it has shaped

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In

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Delhi and other states as well over the last few decades

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Because of sociopolitical reasons, so earlier these.

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mohallas, these areas

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had much more or mixed kind of a population

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and

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Later, but

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I mean actually this started, and in fact the attendance registers of 1950s reveal that about

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35% Hindu children studied in this school at that time and the areas which I have mentioned these areas house many refugees after partition who slowly migrated to neighborhoods where they were given plots for houses others moved out as their businesses grew.

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But after 1984 as

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Some would recall there was anti sikh pogroms which happened, and the Muslims, interestingly.

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were quite shaken, if not as much as the sikhs.

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but many people from it, joining areas they bought houses in.

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This area and many such areas at that time and later the pulling down of the Babri Masjid in 1992 and still later the

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Gujarat genocide of 2002 gradually resulted in the present state of the neighborhoods around the school.

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So now the these areas that I have mentioned, they have more than 95% Muslim population.

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And that this leads to an illusion of

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Security, that is why they are now coming together and over the last several years as

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You know that the Muslim consciousness and vulnerability and security, these are now quite palpable in these areas, since the bgp government

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has come into power so

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This is what.

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This is about the locale of the school and now

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The children who come to this school more than

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65% of the children.

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are Child workers and

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Almost all of them are from working

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class families and as I said about 65% themselves work in a small factories called karkhanas and.

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This area, the entire area this.

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You know undergoes.

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Income shocks, off and on.

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For example, they were sealing

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A small.

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Commercial ventures in the area in 2006 and later in one of the areas.

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which I mentioned Prasadpura in this area.

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There were more than a century older slaughterhouses and these slaughterhouses worse shifted to another place in 2009.

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And this shifting of slaughterhouses to a place which is about 25 to 30 kilometers from this area also again resulted in an income shock, because many people who were workers in those slaughterhouses they had to go to this distant area and going there required.

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You know spending quite a lot of money every day, whereas they earn very little so that again resulted in an income shock which.

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happened often on in this area so yeah, so this is about the area.

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Yes, and you were mentioning that some of the students have like 65% close to on are already actually employed in some of the manufacturing places around you mentioned that so are you working with like high school students, what exactly is the project so.

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Actually, Gayithri, I

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did not take

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up

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take this up

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As a project.

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Exact I got involved with this school as a manager.

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Okay.

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So I did not take this up as a project or

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Research or even have a research site.

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So yeah.

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Fantastic yeah, I just wanted.

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This is all coming from your understanding and experiences like being a part of the community keeping the school going.

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Absolutely yeah and these children.

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This school is.

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A senior secondary school, which runs from class one to class 12 and the primary school runs in the evening shift classes one to five happen in the evening shift, whereas classes six to 12.

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happen in the morning shift, that is from 7am till 12:30pm so that is our morning shift and...

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And most work and.

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which I have been able to do.

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And observe closely.

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Because my association with children has been.

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Quite.

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You know, interesting and I forge relations with many children and children who passed out [graduated], you know.

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Six years ago or eight years ago from this school still continue to be in touch so.

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These young..

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And such a room these children were in the morning shift.

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i've been able to observe.

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The children in classes six to 12 much more closely, as compared to the primary school so yeah.

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So.

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Just to get a perspective, Dr Farooqi would you want to elaborate on how a typical day in your work at the school would look like, because that sounds really very interesting.

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Actually.

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As you know, as I...

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In my introduction, told you that I work with the university.

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Like Jamia Milia islamia and I was

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an honorary manager of the school and unfortunately we don't have.

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You know.

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This kind of work does not find a space in our

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Time table or in workload as well.

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So.

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So yeah it was actually difficult, but I did manage to visit the school.

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At least

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Five times in a month, which went up 20 times

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When the situation demanded.

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and otherwise, even if I was not in the school, communication continued, and you know phone calls and writing emails and communicating with the Delhi Education Society and the directorate of education children, and the teachers, many of them live close to my university

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So they visited me in the university for official work and otherwise as well so

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yeah

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and in my day at university and the school when I managed to go to this school, as I said, it was minimum of five days in a week which went up to 20 days.

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Five days in a month, but which went up to 20 days in a month whenever the situation demanded, so yeah one thing which

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actually helped my classes in the university were either in the morning, or in the afternoon.

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So whenever there you know, and most of the days I used to have classes in the afternoon, so I would visit the school, will reach the school at around 8-8:30 and then be there for a few hours and then come back to the university for my classes.

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So yeah somehow managed, that is what.

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I can say.

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that's that's no.

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I just wanted to get like a sense of like your environment which I think we got a sense of that.

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Thank you so much um, what do you want to elaborate on how you I know it was more of a fortuitous thing that you landed in this place in this school and you were able to work with the community.

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But what is actually keeping you excited and interested about this context, if you could elaborate a little more on what motivated you to take this line of work.

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You know, actually, as I pointed out earlier, that I never.

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At least initially, for a few years, I did not look upon the school as a research site or a project, but what.

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I wanted to do together with the school staff and children was to.

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bring about some kind of positive changes in the school so.

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And as a practitioner, I tried to reflect on my work.

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But that was.

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Later, and.

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One thing that I must share with you is that I did play a number of roles in a way.

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I was the manager of the school.

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A practitioner trying to harness positive energies.

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A student of education, and academic - a university professor.

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And I think wearing these several hats together did give me rare insights about

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The school and also the kind of work that I took up as manager, I was

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Not a mere cheque signing manager, I see because.

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During the course of my work, I interacted not just with the Delhi Education Society and the.

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>>>>>silence to crop<<<

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207

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will give me a second, please, please, please yeah no problem.

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I just.

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yeah I heard the bed.

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yeah please, please, nobody.

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Sorry day three.

00:31:23.573 --> 00:31:26.760
No, no, no don't be sorry.

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Thank you so much for making time outside.

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>>>>> end

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<<<<< 

Through what.

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You were talking about what like what is motivating you to keep this work going you were talking about the multiple hats that you all are in the class.

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Okay.

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So yeah apart from interacting with the Delhi Education Society and the directorate of education and writing innumerable mails to them

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I got a chance to interact with teachers, of course, in formal and informal situations.

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I was

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Very close to children, I taught in a class for some time, in fact, for one class - class eight - for the longest period and then.

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Other classes for a brief period with the.

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The.

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original co-taught with the teachers there and

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yeah back from that I was

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I had to be involved with the community, because the kind of relationship the community had with this school was also very interesting.

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They

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Looked at this school, as an institution which you.

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Because, as I told you, it is a 100 year old educational institution, and some people who were in that.

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lived there

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called themself.

00:33:24.870 --> 00:33:30.770
You know lay a claim to the school in the sense that they have.

00:33:32.770 --> 00:33:46.020
They say that this would have been taken up or it would have gone to the government, but we save the school for the community and

00:33:46.020 --> 00:33:55.159
When the partition happened, so the Community has really interesting.

00:33:56.570 --> 00:34:10.180
You know relationship with the school, so I had to, and also because most children come from the locality, so one has to interact with the parents.

00:34:10.529 --> 00:34:25.219
And not just the parents with other people in the Community, so it took up a lot of time, apart from that, the political leaders who resided in that area and.

00:34:25.409 --> 00:34:59.690
So what i'm trying to tell you is that my role as manager of the way I conceive my role as manager required me to interact with an array of people and groups and, apart from the staff and the children so yeah yeah and also being a part of a number of meetings in this school constituting

00:34:59.740 --> 00:35:07.580
committees and working with them did reveal a lot about the school and how it functions.

00:35:10.730 --> 00:35:11.580
And what has been.

00:35:12.259 --> 00:35:12.819
started writing.

00:35:14.429 --> 00:35:17.910
yeah yeah sorry I think there wasn't like oh no no go on.

00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:20.549
And not so.

00:35:23.190 --> 00:35:30.710
Actually I started writing, documenting my work only after three years of being with the school.

00:35:32.460 --> 00:35:35.510
So, and also published.

00:35:35.510 --> 00:35:45.109
19 articles serialized articles in a journal called shake shack have emerged.

00:35:45.769 --> 00:35:45.789
So.

00:35:49.990 --> 00:35:50.339
yeah.

00:35:51.340 --> 00:35:53.110
yeah yeah what were you asking.

00:35:54.349 --> 00:36:01.550
I think my question was, of course, like this has been like a very deep engagement with the Community the school.

00:36:02.720 --> 00:36:08.273
And, like all the other people who come with the school and the Community be it the parents or children, what has been some of the easy aspects.

00:36:08.273 --> 00:36:08.544
of doing this work if you were to mention a few is it been like working with parents or has it been working with like the teachers anybody else that you would like to.

00:36:08.544 --> 00:36:40.700
point to at this time, if you were to think about like what has been like really like easy or comfortable about this context of work.

00:36:48.399 --> 00:36:56.020
I will not put it like this, I think the best part of working with the school has been my interaction with children.

00:36:56.840 --> 00:37:17.470
And because it was quite amazing you know the kind of relations, I was able to forge with the children, and it was not just amazing for me, but you know the way the staff looked at it, for example.

00:37:17.470 --> 00:37:18.320
The children were

00:37:18.940 --> 00:37:22.239
quite interesting in the sense that they would

00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:29.209
You know some of them

00:37:31.369 --> 00:37:38.109
were quite happy that they knew the manager well and they used to.

00:37:40.260 --> 00:37:45.140
You know boast about it and there were others who would.

00:37:47.260 --> 00:38:00.659
You know tease and take the manager on the ride, and we laugh together, and since I was not just you know involved with the little teaching that I did but otherwise.

00:38:01.469 --> 00:38:28.290
I was also helping children prepare skits and play for the annual day and otherwise generally have you know interacting with them, so this was quite amazing for the staff and they found me laughing with the children, and you know.

00:38:29.509 --> 00:38:32.240
And chatting away with them so.

00:38:32.240 --> 00:38:37.440
And that, and after just.

00:38:38.750 --> 00:38:56.240
you know just a few years, I knew the children much better, I knew their families and homes and the locale much, much better than any of the teachers and because I visited their karkhanas their homes.

00:38:57.740 --> 00:38:59.600
And children would invite me also.

00:38:59.600 --> 00:39:07.600
ki aaj bhai aap humare saath rozaftaar kijiye.

00:39:07.640 --> 00:39:15.620
Have a cup of tea at our place.

00:39:15.620 --> 00:39:15.660
So umm

00:39:15.660 --> 00:39:23.970
You know, so it was quite amazing for the staff, and you know.

00:39:26.129 --> 00:39:30.660
Knowing children was the best part of it, and that is.

00:39:31.809 --> 00:39:46.210
From where I think the several layers of my research, because I was playing these different roles, so I think the kind of layered study.

00:39:47.410 --> 00:40:08.729
which I was able to do, looking at children and the locale, the kind of work that they did, their culture and how the school culture and the lives of children were influenced by the market, how different the kind of...

00:40:10.340 --> 00:40:15.410
There was one group in this school which engaged in religious education.

00:40:17.230 --> 00:40:24.529
And it was a voluntary group; looking at them and understanding their views and...

00:40:25.780 --> 00:40:33.230
Because when they were in this group, the children were totally different in this avatar.

00:40:33.230 --> 00:40:42.720
as they were in the classroom or outside.

00:40:43.100 --> 00:40:58.910
So the kind of work and the [...] kind of understanding of this school happened because of the kind of relations, I was able to develop with children and

00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:14.959
It was actually amazing and I don't know how and why, but the kind of trust that I was able to build with the children, and they would talk about their lives and

00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:20.529
Other things you know in school and outside school.

00:41:20.529 --> 00:41:49.779
So, but it was initially quite amazing for me, I think they were yearning for this, you know this kind of relationship and which, I was able to forge with some children, of course, because I did not have that kind of time, but yeah I learned a lot.

00:41:49.790 --> 00:41:54.660
So that was the best part I think of the entire.

00:41:55.660 --> 00:41:59.279
exercise to knowing the children.

00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:00.900
Nice.

00:42:02.110 --> 00:42:03.907
Anything you want to point.

00:42:03.907 --> 00:42:23.260
At a point to like any hard aspects of doing this work any challenging or difficult part of doing this kind of work, it could be, ranging from like funding to publishing that to, of course, like even like work on the ground.

00:42:26.630 --> 00:42:27.960
What were some of the challenging.

00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:28.880
Parts no.

00:42:30.710 --> 00:42:37.100
Actually, since, I never took up this work as a project or as.

00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:50.680
So there was, of course, funding is no question, I was there as a manager an honorary manager and because the school is too hard upon funds.

00:42:51.990 --> 00:42:58.448
We receive 95% from the government

00:42:58.448 --> 00:42:59.637
which goes.

00:42:59.637 --> 00:43:09.289
Which is for paying the teachers towards the salaries of teachers.

00:43:09.740 --> 00:43:20.580
5% the management has to somehow manage and we do that through.

00:43:20.620 --> 00:43:31.000
We e have to charge a little fee from the students in order to be able to you know.

00:43:32.750 --> 00:43:37.520
for collecting the 5% which we have to.

00:43:39.390 --> 00:43:39.990
Then.

00:43:41.420 --> 00:43:41.940
In order to give this the salaries to teachers and also for every day.

00:43:50.600 --> 00:43:58.090
Expenses like the phone and electricity, and all the rest so yeah.

00:44:01.420 --> 00:44:05.477
So, but of course there was no funding involved and also because we were hard.

00:44:05.477 --> 00:44:15.290
On funds all the time, so but I made it a.

00:44:15.379 --> 00:44:19.150
You know my I never took.

00:44:21.839 --> 00:44:41.949
Even transport expenses from the school for traveling to and fro from jamia to school and back and school is 25 kilometers from jamia so yeah there's there was no question of.

00:44:42.029 --> 00:44:47.630
Funds did not arise, and what is the next thing that you asked.

00:44:47.630 --> 00:44:49.370
have in place.

00:44:49.410 --> 00:44:51.190
In case, if there were any.

00:44:53.190 --> 00:44:54.979
So I think there has been like a little bit of.

00:44:54.980 --> 00:45:01.190
A delay between I speaking and it's reaching that is like some kind of a delay.

00:45:02.820 --> 00:45:08.450
I maybe we'll have to just be patient sorry uh.

00:45:08.450 --> 00:45:09.336
huh.

00:45:09.336 --> 00:45:15.280
So I think my question was if you had any challenges that's all.

00:45:15.349 --> 00:45:17.519
i'm with regard to funding.

00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:19.730
i'm just wondering make publishing or putting this work out in the world.

00:45:19.730 --> 00:45:29.110
or even like working with certain people as a part of this work.

00:45:32.190 --> 00:45:32.210
So.

00:45:33.719 --> 00:46:03.480
With regard to funding, as I told you that I was the only manager of this institution, and with regard to publishing I first published my work as serialized articles in a.

00:46:03.810 --> 00:46:14.940
journal called shiksha vimarsh which you might be knowing an organization which works with schools and also publishers they invited me to publish my.

00:46:16.850 --> 00:46:26.800
My articles in the form of a book and these articles were first written in hindustani.

00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:28.109
That again because.

00:46:29.809 --> 00:46:34.819
I wanted to write a series of articles that no other journal I knew would

00:46:36.629 --> 00:46:38.860
Give me

00:46:38.860 --> 00:46:42.200
permission to write.

00:46:42.290 --> 00:46:48.290
A series and publisher series which shiksha vimarhs most readily agreed so and now.

00:46:48.290 --> 00:47:13.006
I will send my with the book, which has been published, again, is in hindustani, and now I will soon be sending the English version of the book.

00:47:13.006 --> 00:47:17.580
For publication, not to eklavya, but to some other place so the manuscript is now ready, so I think i've taken

00:47:21.009 --> 00:47:21.930
A very different.

00:47:22.650 --> 00:47:24.669
path to studying.

00:47:24.669 --> 00:47:40.969
To doing work, studying school and making a graphical observations, and to writing publishing and yeah so the.

00:47:44.499 --> 00:47:48.639
questions that you are asking again.

00:47:49.460 --> 00:47:50.859
Many times to you're.

00:47:51.220 --> 00:47:58.569
Doing I do my situation and with regard to challenges I think of.

00:48:01.080 --> 00:48:12.645
Understanding the extent and limits of my power in relation to people and positions resources and organizational constraints so.

00:48:12.645 --> 00:48:13.815
The structural and the cultural barriers.

00:48:13.815 --> 00:48:14.500
You know, which

00:48:27.090 --> 00:48:28.430
created a sense of powerlessness amongst teachers and there was always

00:48:28.430 --> 00:48:28.517
A pressure to work to rules.

00:48:28.517 --> 00:48:28.532
but

00:48:28.532 --> 00:48:57.890
and his school what struck me when I joined this school was that it seemed like closed, and it was a closed and suffocating

00:48:59.260 --> 00:49:21.700
space where there was a lot of mistrust between staff, management, and the administration and also the community, and there was a lot of lobbying and politicking so while the management was vigilant and teachers were

00:49:21.700 --> 00:49:23.910
alert and distant and.

00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:31.009
So thinking about some changes was quite

00:49:32.610 --> 00:49:43.799
A huge challenge in an atmosphere where there was blame and fear and my, you know, disdain and.

00:49:45.509 --> 00:49:50.339
But I think one change really which.

00:49:52.319 --> 00:50:08.340
I can leave some claim to and I don't regard any change which came about in the school, as my success or anything which did not work as my individual failure.

00:50:09.330 --> 00:50:29.740
Because we were all working as a team and a lot of credit goes to the administration, because they were working on day to day basis, but the entire the ethos, the atmosphere of the school did undergo a change.

00:50:30.810 --> 00:50:32.000
The kind of.

00:50:32.010 --> 00:50:32.030
The.

00:50:36.309 --> 00:50:47.650
You know the relations between participants, between staff and management changed actually when.

00:50:47.650 --> 00:50:55.400
By initially when I joined the school one complaint which and which I also observed.

00:50:55.400 --> 00:51:00.349
Was that only.

00:51:01.489 --> 00:51:06.590
Three people on the staff, used to say were running this school.

00:51:06.590 --> 00:51:28.790
One principal and two office close associates, the two members of the staff but later, you know, as the principal grew in confidence and he thought that I was with him, he started to delegate

00:51:29.170 --> 00:51:36.619
responsibilities among staff members and later when I

00:51:38.009 --> 00:51:39.810
stepped down as manager.

00:51:40.220 --> 00:51:46.980
So one change, one huge change that happened right before my eyes was.

00:51:48.090 --> 00:51:48.270
That.

00:51:50.820 --> 00:51:51.480
Many.

00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:53.979
Sorry.

00:51:54.150 --> 00:51:55.380
You want me to pause.

00:51:56.710 --> 00:51:59.420
yeah i've been boards that.

00:52:03.929 --> 00:52:11.799
That relations between various participants underwent a huge huge change.

00:52:12.309 --> 00:52:31.729
There were more than 30 teachers who were, around 33 teachers of the 43 or 45 that we had, who were willingly and happily participating in the school in various activities of this school and

00:52:32.979 --> 00:52:38.950
Our principal also later got a letter of appreciation from the Minister of

00:52:42.529 --> 00:52:56.060
The MHRD minister, the Minister of Education, that the way the school has changed and which included, you know many more, we had.

00:52:56.069 --> 00:52:56.740
Earlier only.

00:52:58.190 --> 00:53:05.200
You know 50% of our students managed to barely pass, but now.

00:53:05.209 --> 00:53:14.720
all hundred percent students were passing, which I will not say

00:53:16.450 --> 00:53:20.819
was a huge huge change as i'm referring to.

00:53:22.049 --> 00:53:30.840
The change in relationships which happened because, as we know that marks are, do not lie, that.

00:53:34.070 --> 00:53:57.930
Things have changed and they don't really indicate that children have learned and they have understood, but yeah there were many other changes which happened in this school very slowly to one had to be very patient but yeah so i've been able to.

00:53:59.640 --> 00:54:16.299
document these slow changes which happened and writing my diary as I call it, it did lend me a sense of hope and confidence, and I was able to see the

00:54:16.439 --> 00:54:25.690
The small changes coming about which did give me the confidence to carry on.

00:54:33.380 --> 00:54:36.469
So this, this is a brilliant.

00:54:36.539 --> 00:54:46.210
If you were to make connections like and if you also want to elaborate maybe now would be a great opportunity to talk a little about.

00:54:47.580 --> 00:54:58.140
The series of articles that you wrote from the diary if you want to elaborate on that, that would be wonderful in relation to.

00:54:58.860 --> 00:55:12.239
What we just discussed about what happened in the school and what you saw if you could briefly, I know it, it might be like a really hard ask because there were like a series of articles which we will definitely link to.

00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:42.649
When we are putting up the video, we will be linking to some of your work, of course, one of that would include like a link to the series of articles, but if you were to quickly tell us a little about what you wrote in the article, what did you look at and what were some of the surprises.

00:55:42.649 --> 00:55:42.669
yeah.

00:55:43.759 --> 00:55:49.019
The first two articles Gayithri were about

00:55:49.019 --> 00:55:53.519
understanding school as organization and

00:55:54.420 --> 00:56:02.820
It was about

00:56:10.970 --> 00:56:26.540
[...connection issues] in the first article, for example, I have tried to introduce school by describing its location, infrastructure, available resources, then, do the focus on.

00:56:28.060 --> 00:56:37.589
The first two chapters his own internal organizational processes, but we all know that these remain open to political and

00:56:38.689 --> 00:56:52.210
Economic and policy pressures from outside, so I have tried to understand the responsibilities of different people in the organization and I've also.

00:56:55.540 --> 00:57:02.520
You know, reflected on my work as manager and I have pondered how.

00:57:04.400 --> 00:57:13.680
responsibilities when undertaken sitting in the ivory tower can result in dangerous consequences.

00:57:14.380 --> 00:57:22.640
So, and outcome can be drastically different is tasks are taken up conscientiously and.

00:57:23.610 --> 00:57:28.250
After understanding the ground, the ground realities.

00:57:29.010 --> 00:57:44.180
So i've talked about the interpersonal relations and i've talked about some very interesting aspects, for example, i've used the symbolism of a cup of tea and power.

00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:46.950
Which is a.

00:57:48.170 --> 00:57:58.030
which, in the first chapter i've tried to demonstrate how, at times, we fail to see how how others perceive.

00:57:58.030 --> 00:58:15.350
us and our power because we may not be conscious of our own power, but how others see us and how they perceive us is again important, then I have.

00:58:17.670 --> 00:58:19.510
You know, talked about...

00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:30.319
You know, an interesting thing which I have talked about in Chapter two is about.

00:58:31.649 --> 00:58:31.770
teachers [tea] clubs

00:58:31.770 --> 00:58:41.160
And so, these tea clubs.

00:58:43.480 --> 00:58:47.859
You know, through these tea clubs which used to run inthe school.

00:58:50.140 --> 00:59:03.750
I have tried to understand the interpersonal relations between teachers between teachers and the administration and it was very interesting to see how these

00:59:05.110 --> 00:59:21.580
Teachers actually during the break time they used to gather in groups and have tea, and you know lunch together, so it was really interesting to see how these

00:59:25.270 --> 00:59:34.549
small clubs operated and, for example, the kind of relations that existed in

00:59:36.860 --> 00:59:47.740
In a club; they used to call it a club, but in this group, where there were only female teachers about 13 of them used to have tea together.

00:59:48.410 --> 00:59:59.960
So there the kind of hierarchies the structural hierarchies that existed, whether or not, as visible as in the men's club.

01:00:01.890 --> 01:00:02.360
Read.

01:00:03.640 --> 01:00:12.270
Several you know the PGTs, and the TGTs, there in the men's club they used to be very conscious of.

01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:16.470
Their.

01:00:16.609 --> 01:00:20.430
You know role and status in the school.

01:00:21.250 --> 01:00:33.050
So, and I used to be invited to the men's club, most of the time, because our principal used to have tea in that club, so

01:00:33.740 --> 01:00:39.339
It was very interesting to see what happened there.

01:00:39.879 --> 01:00:45.680
And look, for example, this men's club it used to run in the physics lab

01:00:46.480 --> 01:01:01.510
and principal, he used to, he was offered a comfortable chair before which our table was placed and whenever I joined the Group I was also offered a chair placed at the same table.

01:01:02.599 --> 01:01:04.849
But I prefer to sit with teachers.

01:01:05.190 --> 01:01:17.010
And the teachers, they sat on stools which was placed around the work table of the lab and most of the times.

01:01:17.020 --> 01:01:17.660
The.

01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:20.789
Things like.

01:01:22.049 --> 01:01:25.080
For eating were ordered from outside, but.

01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:41.020
men also you know they brought things prepared by their wives, at times, but in this club, the conversation most of the time was

01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:43.660
Around

01:01:45.770 --> 01:02:03.129
The Department of Education management and obstacles in the path of files, and it was rare to see good humor door chatting which was there in the women's club, so it was really interesting.

01:02:03.140 --> 01:02:08.759
And, at times, I also became.

01:02:08.900 --> 01:02:15.839
me, you know, I was targeted it happened rarely but.

01:02:17.439 --> 01:02:17.809
You know.

01:02:19.889 --> 01:02:20.799
In this club.

01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:25.450
I was cornered at times that because.

01:02:26.900 --> 01:02:33.390
For example, one thing that I did not agree to, or was that to.

01:02:37.210 --> 01:02:45.937
You know, teachers wanted the school to close early on Fridays because of Friday prayers but I.

01:02:45.937 --> 01:03:08.660
said that the school gets over at 1230 and we have sufficient time to go to our places and pray so why leave early so they would call me and say jamia shuts early on Friday and why not our school and all those kind of things.

01:03:09.220 --> 01:03:11.779
Then there was a club which was.

01:03:12.900 --> 01:03:13.810
You know the.

01:03:15.089 --> 01:03:38.800
which was seen as a powerful group, and there were four teachers who had tea together one was to become principal and vice principal in a few years time and there were the staff Secretary, who was a female interestingly, and that was quite interesting because she was.

01:03:38.810 --> 01:03:47.430
This was very contradictory to the culture of the place and culture of the school.

01:03:47.660 --> 01:03:51.782
She was a Member of this group, and it was seen as a powerful group and whosoever the staff if they felt that.

01:03:51.782 --> 01:03:51.989
You know, they were being.

01:03:51.989 --> 01:03:52.072
cornered by.

01:03:52.072 --> 01:03:52.154
By the.

01:03:52.154 --> 01:03:54.510
management, so they would go to this.

01:04:16.310 --> 01:04:36.560
Group for advice and they had the manual, the school manual on their fingertips, and they were, and they also had relations with the government aided School Teachers Association and the other two schools of Delhi Education Society.

01:04:38.450 --> 01:04:40.940
So it was very interesting to document all this and to.

01:04:42.490 --> 01:04:46.940
See the entire group relations through.

01:04:48.050 --> 01:04:50.400
The window of these clubs.

01:04:51.580 --> 01:04:56.846
and later in the chapter, I have also talked about.

01:04:56.846 --> 01:05:03.529
Whether my own role and my own how I was functioning in the.

01:05:05.029 --> 01:05:10.319
In the school, whether it was democratic enough or not or.

01:05:10.499 --> 01:05:12.590
yeah I have.

01:05:16.630 --> 01:05:22.700
recounted several anecdotes to raise questions about my own functioning.

01:05:23.150 --> 01:05:27.550
So basically these two chapters are all, these two articles.

01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:29.490
About to.

01:05:38.629 --> 01:05:38.874
The school organization, interpersonal relations and.

01:05:38.920 --> 01:05:40.919
All such things so

01:05:45.659 --> 01:05:50.079
the third article was about.

01:05:51.339 --> 01:06:13.524
The market and, since our children, as I told you well working in this small factories, or karkhanas, so in this article i've tried to.

01:06:13.524 --> 01:06:27.899
bring forth the big picture of socioeconomic and cultural context of the children, so there is a description about living and working conditions of the children and.

01:06:27.899 --> 01:06:35.519
And the interplay which existed between factory residence and school and the.

01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:38.519
vicissitudes of the market.

01:06:38.929 --> 01:06:50.909
i've also talked about the nature of family and support system and how family relations are influenced by relations of work and market.

01:06:51.749 --> 01:06:54.830
So closely I’ve seen

01:06:56.260 --> 01:06:58.899
You know how children's everyday life

01:06:58.950 --> 01:07:00.113
is affected by the social and economic.

01:07:00.113 --> 01:07:00.495
pressures and

01:07:00.495 --> 01:07:02.256
tried to see the life context of these children.

01:07:02.256 --> 01:07:02.518
So that is what the third chapter is about and.

01:07:02.518 --> 01:07:04.066
i've talked about the karkhanas as I call them.

01:07:04.066 --> 01:07:35.350
And some of these karkhanas or these factories, they doubled up as homes and there would be.

01:07:35.450 --> 01:07:37.480
A small.

01:07:37.480 --> 01:07:42.310
you know a room, which was just

01:07:43.620 --> 01:07:54.729
You know, 12 feet in size and their workers lived and

01:07:54.830 --> 01:07:59.260
worked at the same time, and

01:08:00.309 --> 01:08:12.480
There would be, in that small room, seven or eight or more workers would be staying and also working and.

01:08:13.150 --> 01:08:21.649
With all this and they would be raw material and sewing machines and you know.

01:08:23.080 --> 01:08:44.500
Also, you know things take wired for preparing meals and other things, so I think any work without looking at the living conditions of children would be totally incomplete.

01:08:45.310 --> 01:08:49.440
And another interesting thing that I managed to do in this

01:08:51.930 --> 01:08:55.430
Article was to see

01:08:56.520 --> 01:09:02.279
to compare the relations which children had with their Ustaad.

01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:05.640
Ustaad I’m using for.

01:09:07.990 --> 01:09:14.140
you know for the owners of karkhaanas, so people with whom these

01:09:15.330 --> 01:09:27.010
Children would apprentice, or would intern with or work with, so the kind of relations that they had with them and how these relations were.

01:09:27.910 --> 01:09:46.250
markedly different from the relations that they manage to have with their teachers and so i've compared and contrasted that that how I think that is.

01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:50.300
One thing which.

01:09:52.149 --> 01:09:55.210
I find is really interesting about this chapter.

01:09:56.010 --> 01:10:14.312
So uh because, for example, the ustaad would look after children’s everyday needs and show concern during illness and have a heart to forgive and forget when they were unable to reach

01:10:14.312 --> 01:10:18.150
the workshop on time.

01:10:20.490 --> 01:10:31.250
But also they make children toil for minimum wages and they also delay their payments so.

01:10:31.880 --> 01:10:38.270
This display of sympathy and compassion, how it becomes a medium for exploitation.

01:10:39.030 --> 01:11:00.440
But it was also a means of extending help and patronage, so the hierarchical relationship, how it remained concealed and, at times, it became difficult for child worker to understand its nature but...

01:11:00.670 --> 01:11:13.180
And this was the kind of relationship, you know that they had with the Ustaad was.

01:11:13.260 --> 01:11:17.730
Personal and informal like the judge-maani system.

01:11:19.280 --> 01:11:29.540
So, but the kind of relationship that they had with their teachers, it was impersonal and formal despite their daily association.

01:11:30.070 --> 01:11:31.309
So I have talked about that and i've talked about.

01:11:34.570 --> 01:11:42.670
my visits to karkhanas was and how you know, I was not really confident

01:11:43.170 --> 01:11:52.070
To tell my children to stop working and to devote all their time to studies, because we could not offer.

01:11:52.860 --> 01:11:59.700
You know much in terms of.

01:11:59.700 --> 01:11:59.720
Our.

01:12:00.029 --> 01:12:07.040
Minister of Education, so I did not have that kind of confidence to wean them away from work.

01:12:07.350 --> 01:12:22.429
Because they felt that they were learning some craft, which would come in handy and they did not have the kind of you know, the leisure of devoting years of years to education.

01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:48.340
And even if they did study it was only some went on to college, but they did their graduation, and then they were forced by the circumstances to work and and this did not lead them.

01:12:50.150 --> 01:12:59.349
anywhere in the sense that they will became ultimately became slaves to the multinational companies so.

01:13:00.510 --> 01:13:05.539
These are some of the questions that I have managed to ask in this.

01:13:08.030 --> 01:13:08.559
You know.

01:13:10.009 --> 01:13:14.660
Article and in the next two years, should I go on Gayihtri

01:13:15.700 --> 01:13:26.650
and Dr K was allowed to tell has been like wonderful listen to, like all the chapters, but I don't want to take a lot of your time because I really don't want you to.

01:13:27.349 --> 01:13:30.000
You know stretch your day just for our sake.

01:13:30.430 --> 01:13:41.579
So maybe like we will be linking to the articles and if folks are interested, of course, like whatever you shared with us so far it's going to be good to give a glimpse of the kind of work that you have done.

01:13:41.980 --> 01:13:55.639
So I think, hopefully, our viewers will do the rest of their work by reading more of your writing and I think we can just quickly move on, because I want to ask a few questions.

01:13:56.730 --> 01:14:10.429
One being like is there, like any school of thought any like like a philosopher or anybody like guiding your work is there, like any theory that you go by.

01:14:11.410 --> 01:14:14.980
yeah, that is an important question gayithri.

01:14:15.590 --> 01:14:21.308
Because what I have done in my work as I told you, I started by writing a diary.

01:14:21.308 --> 01:14:21.318
and

01:14:21.318 --> 01:14:21.337
I have.

01:14:21.337 --> 01:14:21.463
The kind of work and the kind of details that I managed to.

01:14:21.463 --> 01:14:21.541
collect and write, so these details I thought.

01:14:21.541 --> 01:14:21.580
I was able to.

01:14:21.589 --> 01:14:56.349
My you know I did pose some questions for analysis and

01:14:59.170 --> 01:15:12.750
Using those details, I think I was able to write quite a coherent narrative and I did not start by looking at different

01:15:15.139 --> 01:15:21.130
You know, theories and in fact, I inverted the whole process.

01:15:21.500 --> 01:15:25.580
I have looked at later.

01:15:25.589 --> 01:15:37.599
I am in the process of writing the English monograph and some studies some work i've already published in English so after

01:15:38.400 --> 01:15:51.070
Writing it in the form of diary; through the lens of my work, I have

01:15:52.510 --> 01:16:03.890
You know, seen the existing literature, instead of doing the inverse, okay, using existing literature to see my work.

01:16:04.190 --> 01:16:14.919
I have used my work to examine the literature and what you call as theory

01:16:15.180 --> 01:16:18.650
For example, Paul Willis's work

01:16:18.650 --> 01:16:24.600
also i've seen.

01:16:26.160 --> 01:16:32.500
i've written a chapter on the discipline committee and discipline so i've seen.

01:16:32.510 --> 01:16:41.210
Foucault’s work through the window of my work so that has been quite an interesting exercise.

01:16:41.900 --> 01:16:56.979
For example, one chapter in my book is about the work culture and the shop floor culture and what children are doing and like Paul Willis talks about how children

01:17:03.569 --> 01:17:04.469
You know, reproduced through their culture

01:17:04.639 --> 01:17:18.470
The existing social realities, so my children, in my school, I found when I was also doing the same, but they were one premise i've been able to.

01:17:19.790 --> 01:17:21.950
To my work.

01:17:21.959 --> 01:17:37.050
You know I embarked upon very different kind of findings as compared to Paul Willis’s findings because children in my school were interested in studies.

01:17:37.050 --> 01:17:46.460
There were various circumstances which compel them to to work and to be you know the kind of.

01:17:46.469 --> 01:17:48.599
things which.

01:17:50.139 --> 01:18:08.610
happened in school and in classroom and that shop floor so yeah Gayithri instead of using theory initially, i've used my work; after creating a coherent narrative to look at

01:18:10.530 --> 01:18:15.479
Studies through the window of my work so that is what I did.

01:18:16.230 --> 01:18:16.679
fantastic.

01:18:17.190 --> 01:18:23.420
I think I really liked how you put it as like you have actually done the reverse.

01:18:25.100 --> 01:18:33.230
Which is very important to capture, I feel, because, like at the end of the day, who says how research should be done or what is research.

01:18:35.180 --> 01:18:55.389
I really like that piece that you clarified so who do you think is benefiting from this work if you were to think in terms of like what equity concern is your work addressing, if that is like the question that you have to answer or think about who do you think is.

01:18:56.689 --> 01:19:01.930
whose voices are being heard through your work or who is getting to.

01:19:03.990 --> 01:19:05.830
benefit from your work, you feel.

01:19:05.830 --> 01:19:05.860
Like.

01:19:05.860 --> 01:19:14.900
I want social inequities do you think you're addressing.

01:19:14.910 --> 01:19:27.310
Yeah I think i've been able to capture many voices, and that I feel is the essence of my work.

01:19:27.950 --> 01:19:31.750
And the one thing that

01:19:33.060 --> 01:19:38.820
I tried to do and I kept reminding myself is to

01:19:40.700 --> 01:20:00.169
Present, and when I was writing the narrative to

01:20:00.169 --> 01:20:00.229
present the voices.

01:20:00.229 --> 01:20:00.329
an array of voices and.

01:20:00.349 --> 01:20:07.180
Through conversations, through you know the dialogues which were happening through.

01:20:07.380 --> 01:20:30.450
Different episodes and anecdotes and describe the situation and also to look at it through the perspective of all the participants, so that I have sort of I have had.

01:20:31.620 --> 01:20:38.410
I have, I think very carefully, try to weave that in.

01:20:39.650 --> 01:20:40.267
Because I feel.

01:20:40.267 --> 01:20:40.275
that

01:20:40.275 --> 01:21:06.639
Being immersed in the field for almost a decade yeah I feel it was my responsibility to present before the world the different kinds of voices the different kinds of the marginalities and.

01:21:06.639 --> 01:21:23.660
The things and issues which were there in that area in the school because, now the kind of work which is happening

01:21:25.310 --> 01:21:28.489
In the area of sociology of education.

01:21:29.800 --> 01:21:30.450
I feel.

01:21:32.660 --> 01:21:45.770
That this kind of immersion has not been possible for many sociologists and educationists of late.

01:21:46.900 --> 01:21:58.700
And, and because of which the kind of layered understanding which is needed to understand a school or its locale better.

01:21:58.870 --> 01:22:00.850
does not really come out.

01:22:03.920 --> 01:22:03.950
Well.

01:22:04.140 --> 01:22:14.140
So with that sense of responsibility, I have been able to capture various voices and yeah...

01:22:16.980 --> 01:22:37.299
Is there like now thinking about like some of the work that has been going on in India, more broadly, either in relation to your work or similar to your work or kind of peripheral but important for your work, are you excited about any ongoing projects that you would like to mention.

01:22:40.110 --> 01:22:40.639
or.

01:22:42.270 --> 01:22:42.600
Maybe.

01:22:48.070 --> 01:22:48.810
Actually, many...

01:22:50.490 --> 01:23:11.050
yeah a lot of work has happened in the recent times i've read educational regimes in contemporary India, which was by Radhika Chopra and Patricia Jeffrey which came out in 2005, but, it is an edited

01:23:11.060 --> 01:23:13.390
book and

01:23:14.490 --> 01:23:24.529
again meenakshi thapan’s work on ethnography of schooling in contemporary India, then.

01:23:24.539 --> 01:23:32.770
Srivastava’s work, Sanjay Srivastava’s work is also quite exciting, which is on Doon school.

01:23:33.210 --> 01:23:45.580
But yeah, I feel that my work is a little different in the sense that the way I got associated with this school, firstly, and also because of.

01:23:45.580 --> 01:23:45.766
The duration of my work is important.

01:23:45.766 --> 01:23:45.793
My.

01:23:45.820 --> 01:23:53.760
For example, some of them have worked in the field for.

01:24:08.080 --> 01:24:10.440
A few months to.

01:24:12.300 --> 01:24:14.240
A year or so, but.

01:24:15.400 --> 01:24:23.811
I think the duration of work is also important, so.

01:24:23.811 --> 01:24:24.469
and then again.

01:24:27.650 --> 01:24:38.879
I think this also one thing that I must say that my work underscores the importance of practitioners to reflect upon their work.

01:24:39.370 --> 01:24:51.289
And to document it keeping in mind their positionality and, of course, the trustworthiness of the data; which I was very conscious about!

01:24:51.370 --> 01:24:56.170
I kept comparing my observations with what teachers had to say,

01:24:57.100 --> 01:25:09.629
And what was documented in the minutes of the meeting, in the minutes of discipline Committee, and they [...] agenda committee meeting, and you know observations I did...

01:25:12.619 --> 01:25:21.059
I was very conscious of establishing the trustworthiness of the data and I was conscious of my positionality but I

01:25:21.450 --> 01:25:32.680
think that this work, my work does underscore the importance of practitioners to reflect upon their work and because practitioners, they are

01:25:33.670 --> 01:25:43.359
Participants in the real sense of the term, and they can improve upon their practice and also bring about some changes.

01:25:43.950 --> 01:25:55.020
And they are in the best position to understand relations of power and the structural cultural processes and the everyday.

01:25:55.720 --> 01:26:06.579
So I feel that my own journey was not just about knowing this school and society, but of self inquiry as well, so.

01:26:09.219 --> 01:26:09.629
and

01:26:10.790 --> 01:26:14.300
I tried to connect the personal

01:26:16.260 --> 01:26:30.680
issues with perspectives and context, which helped me understand the prevalent discourses in the school and to influence some new discourses so yeah and.

01:26:32.150 --> 01:26:42.909
Yeah and another important thing that you have already asked me is to write without looking at an existing theoretical.

01:26:43.960 --> 01:26:48.280
perspective and that truth most useful.

01:26:48.860 --> 01:27:03.540
And because I wrote my journey and, as I told you earlier, in the form of a diary first and only later and I'm writing and I have to send the book very soon Inshallah.

01:27:04.790 --> 01:27:05.490
So writing the

01:27:10.770 --> 01:27:21.400
Only data I wrote as academic articles involving references and linkages with literature and from the thick description.

01:27:21.410 --> 01:27:28.900
I was able to

01:27:28.969 --> 01:27:29.609
Create

01:27:29.650 --> 01:27:47.230
A coherent narrative, but I have, as I said, and I have highlighted both patterns and contradictions in my work.

01:27:47.410 --> 01:27:55.003
But I was also, I must say that I was immersed in the historical moment, but you will realize if you go through my work that

01:27:55.003 --> 01:28:11.990
I was able to maintain a critical distance from the staff and the children to be able to view what infused with some clarity.

01:28:14.500 --> 01:28:28.059
And i've written the book or from my perspective, but i've tried to take into account as many voices as I could in describing different situations and contexts and relations and episodes.

01:28:29.010 --> 01:28:31.433
And I have not used, as I said, the existing theoretical perspective and I wrote it in the form of a diary

01:28:31.433 --> 01:28:31.433
and

01:28:31.433 --> 01:28:32.101
Later I was able to, now i'm able to draw linkages and

01:28:32.101 --> 01:28:34.160
i'm writing in the form of a diary did.

01:28:39.809 --> 01:28:58.880
Give me that flexibility to explore original constructs and ideas.

01:29:00.210 --> 01:29:07.429
So yeah I think that is the hallmark of my work and, of course, I have learned from

01:29:09.089 --> 01:29:10.469
All the other work which is happening.

01:29:10.480 --> 01:29:19.309
Srivastava’s work which is amazing, and so is Meenakshi Thapan’s and Radhika Chopra’s so i've been learning.

01:29:21.049 --> 01:29:22.819
I've learned a lot from them, but

01:29:23.969 --> 01:29:31.020
I was luckily in a situation where I could spend much more time and

01:29:31.020 --> 01:29:31.770
I

01:29:31.770 --> 01:29:42.376
could reflect on my work, and I was a practitioner and yeah.

01:29:42.376 --> 01:29:42.418
fantastic.

01:29:42.460 --> 01:29:43.257
I think that has.

01:29:43.257 --> 01:29:45.630
like an end to this conversation.

01:29:45.650 --> 01:30:08.460
But I I also understand that we are bound by the reality that we have to come to an end, maybe one last question, if you were to have like one or two advisors for like any newcomer who wants to jump into this kind of work in India, like a newcomer in the sense of even newcomer to context.

01:30:09.550 --> 01:30:19.188
What would be your one or two points.

01:30:19.188 --> 01:30:30.222
yeah I don't know all journeys, all research journeys are different and one has to be patient and also enjoy the work and the challenges and I think there is a great possibility of practitioners, of teachers, writing about their work.

01:30:30.222 --> 01:30:30.234
Which.

01:30:30.234 --> 01:31:08.050
has not happened so they need to, I think this work, and I hope, and I wish that my work will give practitioners a sense of direction, that sense of hope, and it will motivate them to look at their own work with much more...

01:31:10.219 --> 01:31:26.269
You know their respect, and they will gain the confidence to document and reflect on their work, to understand their work better and to bring about changes.

01:31:27.250 --> 01:31:27.309
Thank you.

01:31:27.309 --> 01:31:29.289
Okay i'm going to.

01:31:30.289 --> 01:31:37.150
pause because I personally wanted to just thank you, it has been a wonderful conversation.

01:31:37.170 --> 01:31:42.129
Thank you so much, thank you, maybe one last thing is if if you think.

01:31:42.829 --> 01:31:52.660
We would benefit from talking to any of people in your circles, because we are not specifically being like limited to research work we are.

01:31:52.970 --> 01:32:06.309
We would love to capture even like practitioner voice, as you rightly said, in fact, we recently interviewed a teacher who has been teaching for over 30 years and in fact that's the reason we even spoke to Harare when we did.

01:32:07.670 --> 01:32:20.960
Because we wanted to really hear like the practitioner voice, so we are very much open So if you have any recommendation for whom we should talk to, if you find that somebody would fit well with our motives and our intention to capture.

01:32:22.139 --> 01:32:26.269
The work that has been done in the subcontinent we would love to know more.

01:32:27.210 --> 01:32:31.630
yeah I surely will take off people and eight, you know.

01:32:32.010 --> 01:32:38.230
Thank you, thanks, a lot Dr for OK, I will let you go and continue with the rest of your wonderful day.

01:32:39.190 --> 01:32:41.049
Okay Thank you so much.

01:32:43.270 --> 01:32:43.880
Thank you.

01:32:43.880 --> 01:32:44.639
Thank you yeah.

01:32:45.930 --> 01:32:53.090
yeah we'll stay in touch Dr farooqi am going to get back to you, of course, we will take some time to process this.

01:32:53.840 --> 01:33:03.990
But then we will surely stay in touch and get back to you and I think very soon, one of my colleague will get back to you regarding like the pavement but then it's going to take a few months.

01:33:05.120 --> 01:33:06.170
But I just wanted.

01:33:06.170 --> 01:33:21.309
It yeah oh definitely but then we just also acknowledge that it is not usually the case that we get this kind of a fun thing so we're kind of proud of the funding that we received so we also want to make sure that it is it reaches.

01:33:22.640 --> 01:33:27.070
People who are going to partner with us in this process in this journey.

01:33:27.320 --> 01:33:29.570
So thank you so once.

01:33:29.570 --> 01:33:31.470
Again guys play by tag.

01:33:32.679 --> 01:33:33.089
yeah.

01:33:34.010 --> 01:33:34.400
yeah.