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<v Suraj> Yes.

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<v Suraj> Okay.

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<v Boro> Yeah.

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<v Boro> Well, I am Boro Baski.

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<v Boro> I am from Bishnubati, Santal Village which is 10 kilometers away from Visva-Bharati University, Shantiniketan, which Rabindranath Tagore founded, and 160 kilometers away from Kolkata.

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<v Boro> So, I work in an NGO, Ghosaldanga Bishnubati Adibasi Trust since last 30 years.

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<v Boro> And we have been working with several programs, including education, health, child and women healthcare.

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<v Boro> We have tree plantation program.

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<v Boro> We have agriculture.

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<v Boro> We have bio-farming and cultural activities and so on.

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<v Boro> Yeah, I live in the village with my parents and we have a group of people with whom I am working since many years now.

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<v Suraj> Okay.

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<v Suraj> Thank you for that introduction.

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<v Suraj> So I think many of our listeners, especially those not familiar with Indian context will not have been familiar with the terms, Adivasi communities or specifically the Santal community.

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<v Suraj> So I was hoping you could tell us a little bit about what those words mean and what words you like to use to refer to your community.

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<v Boro> Yeah, Adibasi the commonly translated term of Adivasi is the original inhabitant or the indigenous people of India.

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<v Boro> And in collective, I think the tribes of Indian subcontinent, we call Adivasi.

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<v Boro> And Santal is one of the largest homogenous tribal group among 705 different tribal groups of the country.

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<v Boro> They consist about 10 million and are spread over several states of India, like Jharkhand, Odisha, Bihar, West Bengal, Assam, and even outside India, in Bangladesh and Nepal.

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<v Boro> According to modern development indicators, such as health, education, life expectancy rate, and per capita income santal is one of the least developed communities of our country.

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<v Suraj> So in recent years, you've and actually as you had said, for quite a long time you've been doing work in the community, including work in schooling, in museums to preserve culture, in thinking about the script and medium of students learning.

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<v Suraj> So to start with, it would be lovely to hear about your journey, Mr.

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<v Suraj> Boro, from what kinds of experiences made you come back to this work?

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<v Suraj> What made you decide to focus on education?

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<v Suraj> Specifically sort of your story.

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<v Boro> Yeah.

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<v Boro> Actually, it's a long journey, as I said, about last 30 years.

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<v Boro> And this is the initiative that have come up, is actually not a pre-planned idea.

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<v Boro> It is just the way I grew up, and the problem I've faced until I met and gradually the project got shaped.

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<v Boro> And as I said, I grew up in a village, Bishnubati and as a normal santal child.

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<v Boro> And I used to look after our cows and goats, and roam around in the nearby jungle and rivers.

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<v Boro> And I have two brothers and one sister.

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<v Boro> I'm the eldest and my brothers had been to school, but my sister never went to school as she was working with my parents in the local brick kiln to support me and my brothers’ studies.

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<v Boro> So my mother's family were converted Christians.

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<v Boro> And they've the trend of sending the children to school.

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<v Boro> One day, my uncle came and asked my mother, if she was ready to send her son to a boarding school in the town.

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<v Boro> Everybody agreed in our family except my aunt, who said, "I don't want that our child get lost after having education," because I was the first boy from our village who went to school.

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<v Boro> So we had no school in the village, and I was the alone that I got this proposal.

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<v Boro> So finally, I was sent to a Christian boarding school, which is 40 kilometers away from our village.

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<v Boro> And it was there my world beyond our village opened up.

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<v Boro> In the mission school I got used to with the city life, the football, the indoor games, electricity, ceiling fan, and become conscious about health and hygiene and disciplined life.

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<v Boro> In the boarding school, we were forced to speak Bengali or English.

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<v Boro> And whoever spoke in their mother tongue were punished.

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<v Boro> My uncle used to pay my hostel fees, was reluctant to bring me home during long vacations feeling that I would forget my studies by mixing with the village friends.

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<v Boro> So in between, an accident happened, my uncle was paying my fees in the hostel, his wife suddenly died, and I had to return to my village permanently and my parents were unable to pay my hostel fees.

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<v Boro> After staying 10 years in the boarding school, out of my village, when I returned back to my village, I found myself in odd situation.

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<v Boro> I felt alienated from my friends and villagers.

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<v Boro> Though I could speak my mother tongue, yet I felt that unseen wall had been created between us.

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<v Boro> I have forgotten many things that I learned before going to boarding school and did not know many things that a boy of my age was supposed to know.

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<v Boro> For example, I did not know the basic work in the family and in the field works such as cooking, feeding the cows and pigs, climbing on the palm trees, swimming, plowing, and so on.

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<v Boro> I also did not know how to play various types of musical instruments, drums, and flutes, making various types of fishing and hunting traps.

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<v Boro> I used to feel embarrassed among the family members when I could not utter the name of the relationship while greeting them, or cannot respond to the queries from my members, as I did not know if the relationship with him or her falls in a respectful or joking relationship.

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<v Boro> So this is the first phase that I have experienced when a child goes out from his village to the town and grew up in a different culture and how he gets isolated.

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<v Boro> So coming back, I felt that I have to relearn . I have to re-educate myself in the village life, the village community rules and regulations, I have to learn again.

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<v Boro> And I started working with my parents in the agricultural field.

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<v Boro> And also I went to the construction site in the town to work.

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<v Boro> But again, I felt it was too much for me.

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<v Boro> So I said, I will start again.

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<v Boro> I was in class seven that time.

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<v Boro> So again, I got admitted in the school, but my parents did not understand the problem that is going on in between, because they could not understand.

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<v Boro> It was beyond their imagination and experience.

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<v Boro> So that is how life was going on.

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<v Boro> A big turning point in my life actually happened when I met a German scholar, Mr.

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<v Boro> Martin Kampchen at a railway station.

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<v Boro> I was going to Burdwan to visit my friend in a boarding school.

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<v Boro> The gentleman was studying in the Visva-Bharati University and on the train, we discussed about an hour.

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<v Boro> He was going back to Germany in the summer vacation.

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<v Boro> And that first meeting, and from that, eventually we become friends and this meeting actually became a long term working relationship also.

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<v Boro> I studied masters, I did my masters in social work.

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<v Boro> One day, he called me Boro, what do you want to do with your life?

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<v Boro> And I said, yeah, I need a job to support my family.

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<v Boro> And he said, look, I have got some amount from the last will from one of my well wishers in Germany for village development work.

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<v Boro> And I'm still wondering how to spend that amount for a good cause.

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<v Boro> And he also said he did not want to spend the money in any normal charitable work or to somewhere, give where it really matters.

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<v Boro> And finally, he asked me if I could also have this amount, if I wanted and could do something for my community, for example, to start a school in my mother tongue Santali.

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<v Boro> And to address a problem that I have been through while taking education through foreign language Bangla.

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<v Boro> And yeah, and that striked me and I discussed with my college mate Gokul Hansda and some of my friends Snehadri and some villagers.

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<v Boro> And it was in 1996 that we started a school, a non-formal Santal school.

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<v Boro> Rolf Schoembs Vidyashram we named the school after the gentleman, Rolf Schoembs, who donated the amount to Martin Da for village development activities.

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<v Boro> So in the beginning, our main aim was to address the problems santal children face in the government schools for which they become drop outs.

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<v Boro> The problems were identified.

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<v Boro> We identified the problems related to language, curriculum, and method of teaching.

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<v Boro> In the government schools, most of the teachers are Bengali and thus teaching imparted in Bangla language, whereas the Santal children speak in their mother tongue at home so they hardly understand Bangla.

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<v Boro> Therefore, the communication between the teachers and the students hardly took place.

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<v Boro> The student used to lose their interest in studies and prefer to look after their cows and goats or helping their parents in the daily house chores.

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<v Boro> So this is the beginning and gradually, and also other problems that I said the curriculum and the method of teaching too, was based on the need of the majority Bangla children and not the Santals and other linguistic minority children at least in the government schools.

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<v Suraj> So Mr.

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<v Suraj> Boro, I just want to say, of course you can't see my face, but please know I'm listening nodding along very, I really appreciate what you're saying.

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<v Suraj> And as you keep going, I would love to hear so language, the difference in language is quite straightforward, but what about the curriculum and the method of teaching was not aligned to some of the needs of the Santal children?

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<v Suraj> Yeah.

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<v Suraj> [internet disconnect and repeat] So you had said that the language and the curriculum and the teaching methods all were aligned to the majority Bengali students.

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<v Suraj> Yes.

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<v Suraj> And language is quite obvious how that would be, but what about the curriculum and the teaching methods?

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<v Boro> Yeah.

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<v Boro> Curriculum, as I said, that most of the subjects that they learn in the schools are based on the Bengali environment, none of the house, the pictures, the pictures of a lady or a mother, there's the Bengali lady, that's written mother and foods and dress.

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<v Boro> Whereas the Santal family and the parents have different dresses and food habits and method of teaching the teachers in the government school are trained.There are teacher training schools, they are trained to teach how to address the problems of the majority children, but how to address the problems of the minority children, linguistically minority children face, they are not trained for that.

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<v Boro> So these tribal children or the Santal children basically, have no option, but to attend those schools and slowly they become dropouts when they lose their interest.

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<v Boro> So we felt these problems need to be addressed.

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<v Boro> And this is the problem that I do have experienced in my own life.

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<v Boro> So, to address these issues, we began to develop our own curriculum and method of teaching, where Santal children can learn through their own mother tongue Santali in the beginning and gradually they will move over to Bengali.

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<v Boro> For example, in Bengali we learn 'au’ for ‘ajagar’ which means snake.

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<v Boro> but when a Santal child sees that picture, he says, "what is 'Ajogar'?"

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<v Boro> It is called 'bing' in Santali.

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<v Boro> Again, for ‘aa’ it is written ‘aam’ and there is a picture of mango ‘aa’ for 'aam', but for Santal child ‘aam’ is ‘you’ and the picture is of ‘ool’ meaning mango.

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<v Boro> So it is very confusing for a small child who does not know Bengali language..

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<v Boro> First he has to understand that this 'ool' is called 'Aam' and from it is related to this letter.

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<v Boro> So we have developed our primers, where we have put pictures with Santali words in bengali scripts.

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<v Boro> For example, 'Au' for ‘aurah’' 'Aa' for 'Aargom' like that.

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<v Boro> And it's very easy for them because first they recognize the picture, then come to the word and gradually we also develop the primers.

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<v Boro> Santali reading primers instead of reading 'maa amake bhaat dau' mother please give me food.

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<v Boro> So if a child utters this sentence without knowing it, he doesn't get joy in it, but when he speaks 'Maa dakanj joma' Mother, I want to have food, ah, what, a joy.

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<v Boro> So this kind of small sentence in Santali and we started to develop and they enjoy it.

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<v Boro> Even the rhymes, we also include our folklore our history because in most of the schools, the students learn about the history India in general.

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<v Boro> We learn about Tagore, Gandhiji or Shantiniketan everything, but we don't learn about our own history, our life our heroes.

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<v Boro> And this is sometime we feel that it is, we are de-santalizing them, de-culturizing them.

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<v Boro> And so this way we develop our own primers and included our history folklore and gradually the children got their interest.

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<v Boro> And it was in the beginning the parents also were reluctant to accept our idea because they thought these children have to go to the Bangla school or have to attend, learn English, and Bengali in their life later and why to teach them in Santali.

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<v Boro> But later on, when they saw that their children are doing good in high schools and they are growing up very confidently and they don't want to miss their classes and their schools.

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<v Boro> And their parents also felt, there is something good over there that is why our children are going.

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<v Boro> And slowly now we have near about 93 students.

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<v Boro> Children are coming from 12 different villages of our area.

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<v Boro> So this is how things began.

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<v Boro> And after running this school for 10 years, we realized that we are having some problems.

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<v Boro> And that problem is that when these children come out from their school, they cannot adjust in the government school.

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<v Boro> So we had to open the evening coaching centers in different villages to guide them, to help them.

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<v Boro> And can you hear me?

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<v Suraj> Yes.

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<v Suraj> Thank you.

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<v Boro> Yeah.

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<v Boro> Yeah.

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<v Boro> And I think you can understand what I'm saying.

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<v Suraj> Yes.

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<v Suraj> I think this is, that's very illuminating.

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<v Suraj> So to rephrase sort of that question.

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<v Suraj> So you've been doing this work for a long time now.

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<v Suraj> How has, what has changed in your thinking or what have you noticed over that period that maybe you've changed your thinking?

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<v Suraj> Or perhaps if there's anything that has surprised you in this work?

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<v Boro> Yeah, they actually, over the time we gradually included our programs, according to the need as I said.

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<v Boro> Then after, after their school final, we realized that unless these children or the students are established in their professional life or get employment this mere degree, will not help them, benefit them.

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<v Boro> So if we started a vocational training course.So after school final, the students, according to their knack, and their interest, we guide them to take various types of trades.

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<v Boro> And so they establish themselves somewhere and start earning, because that is very important.

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<v Boro> And that is why we also included agriculture in our school because the Santal community, the way of life is so much connected with agricultural cycle.

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<v Boro> And it is very sad to see that in the schools or in our main stream education, we don't find any reflection of these areas.

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<v Boro> And this is where they feel confident.

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<v Boro> And so we included biofarming, we've included fisheries.

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<v Boro> We have bee keeping, we have monsoon cultivation, we have food processing and all this, so that from while in the school, they can get to know, they get to know all these trades.

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<v Boro> And later on, if anybody wants to continue heor she can do that.

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<v Boro> And that is one thing.

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<v Boro> And this way, again, we, so now many of our students after completing the studies, now they are working in different fields.

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<v Boro> Some of them are, of course, taking higher education, studying in the university.

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<v Boro> We also encourage them.

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<v Boro> If we see that he has that talent.And final inclusion that we have is the museum, because we felt that tribals, those who are deeply rooted with their culture, their education cannot happen in isolation.

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<v Boro> We cannot, education cannot happen without their culture.

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<v Boro> We should include them because that is their way of life.

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<v Boro> So education and culture cannot be separated that way.

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<v Boro> And if we do so, we feel that will be incomplete and that will be one sided.

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<v Boro> So we started to encourage them in keeping their culture, music, dance, and dramas, and established a museum where we have exhibited more than 150 items related to their dress, ornaments, hunting equipments, musical instruments, and agricultural equipments.

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<v Boro> And our students go there regularly to learn and to see, because nowadays after introduction of the schools in the villages, the children don't get the normal way to acquire their indigenous knowledge and skills.

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<v Boro> Before, they used to learn normally from their parents and from their old people.

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<v Boro> But now, since they have to go to school and their time table has totally changed, we have to do it in an organized way.

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<v Boro> And museum is that place where the students go regularly.

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<v Boro> A day is set aside for every class to visit the museum once a week.

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<v Boro> And they get to learn about their own culture and history . This museum is located in the village and the villagers themselves are looking after the museum, we call it a community museum and the villagers have donated these items for the museum and the students take care of that regularly.

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<v Boro> If some visitors come, the students show them around and this boosts up their self confidence and their pride.

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<v Boro> And through this museum, we also receive guests from Shantiniketan, from Kolkata.

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<v Boro> And through this museum, our neighbors, immediate neighbors, those who have no idea, or very little idea about Santals or distorted idea that Santals only drink, sing and dance, and they don't want changes.

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<v Boro> This is the idea or the picture that has been portrayed over the years through various films, Bengali novels or art films.

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<v Boro> And we have to break this stereotype and notion, and we want to show the world that we are beyond that.

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<v Boro> We have our own culture, we have our own history.

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<v Boro> And so this museum also connects us with the outside world and through our culture and tradition, we want our children to keep their roots intact and accept what is over there in the world.

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<v Boro> So this is the basic concept of education that one should grow up from its own roots, from knowing to unknown, from known to unknown and gradually he will branch out to the world.

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<v Boro> He will learn different languages and culture, but without losing his or her roots.

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<v Suraj> I really appreciate that definition of education.

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<v Suraj> And I appreciate what you've said also about education and culture being inseparable.

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<v Suraj> So I feel that you've told us this story and we can see how the various pieces from the school to the museum go together.

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<v Suraj> And it sounds like there has been a lot of success in these projects, what have been some of the biggest challenges in doing this kind of work?

00:31:01.780 --> 00:31:18.039
<v Boro> Well, the first challenge, of course, is the idea of education through mother tongue and to include the culture.

00:31:20.049 --> 00:31:41.140
<v Boro> So that is the challenge that came from our own people because they could not, the villagers in the beginning could not understand the need of learning through their mother tongue and inclusion of culture in education.

00:31:41.730 --> 00:31:51.389
<v Boro> As I said earlier, that argument was that since the children anyway have to deal with Bangla and English throughout their lives, then why teach them in Santali?

00:31:52.239 --> 00:32:09.499
<v Boro> So it took several years to make them understand that learning through their mother tongue helps their children in keeping rooted to their culture and heritage and help them get a broader understanding of the subject they study.

00:32:10.829 --> 00:32:19.169
<v Boro> And as I said, the tribals are deeply rooted to their language and culture.

00:32:21.249 --> 00:32:36.260
<v Boro> And secondly, I think to inspire youth to start an individual enterprise rather than to run after a ready-made job is also a big challenge.

00:32:38.290 --> 00:32:48.120
<v Boro> So still in our mainstream education system and everywhere, we always tell our students, you study, you have to get a job.

00:32:48.190 --> 00:32:50.879
<v Boro> You have to go to the city, you have to go to town.

00:32:51.910 --> 00:33:04.510
<v Boro> So when we are talking about this idea to strengthen your own strength, you grow up with your own strength with your own trades that you have.

00:33:05.739 --> 00:33:18.660
<v Boro> Then sometimes it seemed to them and too many, even the teachers also that we are actually working or talking against the trend.

00:33:19.600 --> 00:33:22.570
<v Boro> So that is, that is another problem.

00:33:23.100 --> 00:33:33.230
<v Boro> And another problem is that we also have not been able to prepare many women leaders who can take the lead in the decision making process.

00:33:33.250 --> 00:33:45.497
<v Boro> In our committee of course we have some women members, but still we feel that we need more and we have not been able to prepare them.

00:33:45.497 --> 00:33:57.803
<v Boro> And yeah, we feel pity that the government still does not encourage this type of small development initiatives.

00:33:57.803 --> 00:34:09.110
<v Boro> Government officials sometimes come to see our project and appreciate our work, but do not take any step to implement the idea elsewhere.

00:34:09.110 --> 00:34:24.020
<v Boro> So, if the government would have taken or worked in this line, at least we could have done something.

00:34:25.690 --> 00:34:27.190
<v Boro> We could work in other places.

00:34:27.500 --> 00:34:34.549
<v Boro> Actually, we don't go to other villages and work, we inspire the people of other villages.

00:34:34.829 --> 00:34:37.939
<v Boro> We go and support them and

00:34:40.330 --> 00:34:46.530
<v Boro> yeah, because we don't go to other villages and start working there.

00:34:46.630 --> 00:34:48.590
<v Boro> We don't expand that way.

00:34:48.740 --> 00:34:58.449
<v Boro> We invite other people to come to our village, see the projects, stay with us and start in their own area in their own village.

00:34:59.169 --> 00:35:03.800
<v Boro> So we always inspire them to take lead in their own work.

00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:13.360
<v Boro> So that way we expand and yeah, . These are some of the major problems.

00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:14.939
<v Suraj> Yeah.

00:35:14.949 --> 00:35:15.479
<v Suraj> Thank you.

00:35:15.490 --> 00:35:25.849
<v Suraj> So as you told that story, I saw that there are a lot of different reactions from the community itself, from the government and so on.

00:35:27.380 --> 00:35:31.789
<v Suraj> So you had already mentioned that you were influenced by Dr.

00:35:31.809 --> 00:35:44.820
<v Suraj> Martin Kaempchen and I wonder if there are any other specific works or role models, thinkers, theories, schools of thought, people, communities that have influenced your work in thinking.

00:35:44.870 --> 00:35:47.520
<v Suraj> And even if you want to tell us more about Dr.

00:35:47.520 --> 00:35:48.919
<v Suraj> Kaempche’s ideas.

00:35:50.149 --> 00:35:58.420
<v Suraj> How, who do you look to as sort of the people whose ideas you draw on or build on, or who have otherwise influenced you?

00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:04.350
<v Boro> Yeah, Dr.

00:36:04.350 --> 00:36:15.030
<v Boro> Martin actually was the first person who first triggered us with this idea.

00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:22.247
<v Boro> And after that, we have visited so many schools throughout India in Jharkhand, even in south India, in Kerala, Tamil Nadu, even we went to Bangladesh.

00:36:22.247 --> 00:36:33.930
<v Boro> I went with some of our teachers to visit this kind of special project, how they're working.

00:36:34.950 --> 00:36:42.920
<v Boro> And yeah, they all are doing very good jobs in their own way.

00:36:43.439 --> 00:36:58.120
<v Boro> But we didn't find anybody working among the Santals and with this method, with the community people, because we are actively involved with the community and we live in the people.

00:36:58.740 --> 00:37:01.789
<v Boro> So I didn't, we didn't find that.

00:37:02.470 --> 00:37:37.050
<v Boro> But when you talk about idea, I think I would say, Rabindranath Tagore because I studied in Shantiniketan and he believed learning from the nature and to work with the people, because he used to say that to do the development work, you don't, necessarily have to have money, or you have time.

00:37:37.170 --> 00:37:49.020
<v Boro> That is not enough that you can do work with the people, but you have to have the right to work with them.

00:37:49.200 --> 00:37:49.510
Boro:

00:37:50.020 --> 00:37:52.700
<v Boro> Then only you can bring about changes.

00:37:54.870 --> 00:38:02.580
<v Boro> He started one project in Sriniketan called Rural re-construction project many years ago.

00:38:03.970 --> 00:38:24.550
<v Boro> He worked with the villagers, going to them with the new method of agriculture and it is this idea that inspired us to work towards development in keeping with their way of life.

00:38:32.059 --> 00:38:38.510
<v Boro> Education should not be an alien thing rather it should be part of life.

00:38:38.560 --> 00:38:49.920
<v Boro> If education cannot be related to everyday life, then education has no value.

00:38:50.010 --> 00:38:59.130
<v Boro> People’s life, how they're living, they have to give importance to their life also.

00:39:00.260 --> 00:39:01.930
<v Boro> And it's a long term process.

00:39:01.930 --> 00:39:03.580
<v Boro> Even it takes generations.

00:39:04.019 --> 00:39:11.149
<v Boro> Education, it's not a term bound project of three or six months or one year project.

00:39:11.950 --> 00:39:18.663
<v Boro> So yeah, Tagore influenced us a lot.

00:39:19.610 --> 00:39:20.299
<v Suraj> Thank you.

00:39:21.470 --> 00:39:34.400
<v Suraj> So you have already talked a little bit about the reaction from government officials and from people outside of Santal communities may have these incorrect perceptions of the communities.

00:39:34.410 --> 00:39:50.790
<v Suraj> So I wonder if you think about talking to educators and teachers and government officials outside of Santal communities, what do you feel they need to know about Santal communities or about Adibasi knowledge systems that maybe they don't know right now?

00:39:50.810 --> 00:39:56.789
<v Suraj> What might need to change in their thinking about these communities for educators?

00:40:01.389 --> 00:40:22.610
<v Boro> We feel that to work with the Santals I think one has to know the language, which is very important because through language you can connect with them immediately.

00:40:23.530 --> 00:40:45.140
<v Boro> And the idea that we get from the main media or through the films or through the stories, and in most of the cases Santal life have been romanticized.

00:40:45.940 --> 00:40:51.600
<v Boro> They work and live in the jungle, they drink rice wine, they dance all their life.

00:40:51.610 --> 00:41:02.400
<v Boro> So this is how we have been portrayed in the films and this is what has been instilled in the general mindset, especially in the, I would say Bengali mindset.

00:41:03.270 --> 00:41:13.570
<v Boro> So if somebody wants to work with them, he has to live with them, must learn their history, their...

00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:15.779
<v Boro> Yeah, yeah.

00:41:16.439 --> 00:41:18.390
<v Boro> Can you hear me now?

00:41:18.770 --> 00:41:19.170
<v Suraj> Yes.

00:41:19.170 --> 00:41:19.930
<v Suraj> I can hear you.

00:41:19.950 --> 00:41:27.390
<v Suraj> I really appreciate your patience with this, you were talking about this romanticized view of Santal communities.

00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:29.410
<v Boro> Yes.

00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:45.770
<v Boro> And I think I would suggest that if the teachers and even the government can develop different method of teaching for the adivasi children, not only the santals.

00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:56.697
<v Boro> Other tribes too, there are so many tribes Adivasis in India, I said more than 700 different tribes and they have their own different distinct language and culture.

00:41:56.697 --> 00:41:57.159
<v Boro> Santal being the largest among them.

00:41:57.909 --> 00:42:17.900
<v Boro> So we need a different method of teaching and teachers should be trained, especially to address the problems of the Santal children.

00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:23.000
<v Boro> And there should be different teachers training center.

00:42:24.020 --> 00:42:36.060
<v Boro> And there should be a different school because we are still 1% of total, more than 1% of Indian population, 10 million, more than 10 million.

00:42:36.630 --> 00:42:58.250
<v Boro> So unless we set up a separate school with a separate method of teaching and different curriculum and schools through their mother tongue, because the language also carries forward the culture.

00:42:59.870 --> 00:43:02.260
<v Boro> Without language, culture cannot survive.

00:43:03.060 --> 00:43:17.529
<v Boro> So these other aspects we have to focus on and first the government has to realize that yes, these linguistic minority communities are having problems.

00:43:19.009 --> 00:43:30.310
<v Boro> And until now I think these issues, these problems have not been addressed seriously, not from the government nor from any other agencies.

00:43:30.380 --> 00:43:32.119
<v Boro> I don't see that.

00:43:32.469 --> 00:43:49.540
<v Boro> Of course there are so many provisions given in the constitution, where in the beginning the linguistically minority children can learn through their mother tongue.

00:43:52.340 --> 00:43:54.360
<v Boro> But that's not being implemented well.

00:43:56.170 --> 00:44:09.860
<v Boro> So the problem still persists . And the government has to seriously look into this problem.

00:44:13.210 --> 00:44:13.670
<v Suraj> Huh.

00:44:14.080 --> 00:44:22.090
<v Suraj> So I will just to be respectful of your time, I'll take us through sort of the last few questions.

00:44:22.100 --> 00:44:31.430
<v Suraj> So the first thing is that with everybody we've been sitting with, we've offered them an opportunity to talk about how COVID-19 has changed some of their work.

00:44:31.740 --> 00:44:36.350
<v Suraj> And some people can have chosen to skip this question and some people answer it.

00:44:36.350 --> 00:44:38.000
<v Suraj> So I want to give you the opportunity.

00:44:38.230 --> 00:44:43.589
<v Suraj> If you have anything about COVID-19 in santal communities or how it shaped your work?

00:44:43.610 --> 00:44:46.150
<v Suraj> I want to offer you that opportunity.

00:44:46.570 --> 00:44:56.869
<v Boro> Well, COVID pandemic has affected our school and other development initiatives very badly, I should admit that.

00:44:57.909 --> 00:45:26.064
<v Boro> And as if we have gone back to the time when we started our works, it took years and even a generation to develop the culture of going to school.

00:45:26.064 --> 00:45:26.384
<v Boro> And also the mindset of the people , of the parents that education can bring changes for good.

00:45:26.384 --> 00:45:28.250
<v Boro> So it took so many years to develop all this.

00:45:28.930 --> 00:45:47.650
<v Boro> And now after the closure of schools, for nearly two years, the students have gone back to the profession of their parents, working in the fields, looking after their cows, goats and hunting birds and mice, catching fish and snakes.

00:45:48.289 --> 00:45:55.260
<v Boro> So they have gone back to their own traditional life again, because that is also their comfort zone.

00:45:55.270 --> 00:45:56.409
<v Boro> They feel very confident there.

00:45:56.809 --> 00:46:23.165
<v Boro> And this pandemic strengthened their belief that it is the agricultural that actually supports them so much because people, those who were in the cities and towns, they lost their jobs and had no other source of income.

00:46:23.165 --> 00:46:34.130
<v Boro> And so you know what happened in the cities and towns, but in the villages, those working in the fields continued working during this period also.

00:46:37.340 --> 00:46:45.360
<v Boro> Of course, when restriction was eased a bit in between, they lived their normal life.

00:46:45.520 --> 00:46:49.293
<v Boro> So in the villages, they also used to say, "No, we are fine because this is the life, our way of life saved us from the pandemic".

00:46:49.293 --> 00:47:11.750
<v Boro> So this boosted their confidence and yes, the agricultural life is so important for us.

00:47:12.610 --> 00:47:13.850
<v Boro> Yes, very important.

00:47:13.860 --> 00:47:36.200
<v Boro> But at the same time, the education that we are talking about and the development through it, has been affected a lot,which is very sad.

00:47:36.200 --> 00:47:37.710
<v Suraj> Thank you for sharing that.

00:47:38.640 --> 00:47:45.860
<v Suraj> So I feel that this was, again, I appreciate you persevering through our technical difficulties.

00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:49.760
<v Suraj> I feel that we got a good picture of your own experience.

00:47:49.790 --> 00:47:57.540
<v Suraj> And then some of the initiatives you have set up to work with Santal children and how those have worked and what kinds of reactions people have had.

00:47:58.150 --> 00:48:24.490
<v Suraj> I would like to offer you if there's anything else about either your work or your own experience doing this kind of teaching and education, or just in general, if there's things about Santal communities, Adivasi communities and education learning and teaching that we haven't had the chance to talk about, is there anything else you would like to address or add?

00:48:26.540 --> 00:48:51.425
<v Boro> Yeah my personal realization is that, this development, work is also a part of the journey of my life as when the school gradually started growing, I too gradually grew up with it.

00:48:52.060 --> 00:49:06.920
<v Boro> So it's development is also my development and through this project and through the different people, who are connected with this project.

00:49:08.070 --> 00:49:13.900
<v Boro> And I think I have enriched myself a lot.

00:49:13.980 --> 00:49:36.503
<v Boro> I had never known this life before , even though I am a Santal myself, but you'll never know better unless you are with the problems and you yourself are involved working in it.

00:49:36.710 --> 00:49:42.830
<v Boro> So since I am throughout this journey, and this is not only my journey.

00:49:42.850 --> 00:49:51.820
<v Boro> This is the life story of many of our team members, because many of us are working together for last 30 years.

00:49:52.250 --> 00:49:53.967
<v Boro> So this is our life story also.

00:49:53.967 --> 00:49:54.340
<v Boro> The story of our journey of life.

00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:03.390
<v Suraj> Yeah, that's lovely.

00:50:03.390 --> 00:50:05.299
<v Suraj> I appreciate that sentiment.

00:50:07.659 --> 00:50:08.279
<v Suraj> Well, Mr.

00:50:08.290 --> 00:50:11.220
<v Suraj> Boro, again, thank you so much for sitting with us.

00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:15.490
<v Suraj> I feel that it has been very illuminating to hear about this work.

00:50:15.790 --> 00:50:28.550
<v Suraj> And also some of the ways that you've talked about education and culture, education is having to be not an alien thing, but some be rooted in one's own community and then grow outward.

00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:34.040
<v Suraj> I think will really be some good food for thought for our listeners.

00:50:35.249 --> 00:50:38.500
<v Suraj> And I recognize we've had some technical difficulties today.

00:50:38.500 --> 00:50:47.740
<v Suraj> So I really appreciate your participation even as you kept having to be kicked off and all, and not being able to see me.

00:50:47.740 --> 00:50:51.170
<v Suraj> But I find this all very, very interesting.

00:50:51.180 --> 00:50:53.370
<v Suraj> I'm really appreciating the work you do.

00:50:53.370 --> 00:50:57.549
<v Suraj> And the things that you've shared today in terms of next steps.

00:50:57.869 --> 00:51:04.920
<v Suraj> The first thing is, of course, as I mentioned in my email, we have a grant and we would love to pay you as a token of our appreciation.

00:51:05.270 --> 00:51:14.730
<v Suraj> And so what I'll send, what I'll do is I'll send you a form and the ways we can pay you is either if you have an electronic account, like a PayPal or a Zelle, we can pay you that way.

00:51:15.010 --> 00:51:33.179
<v Suraj> But if not, we can, we send a check and so do let us know which of those you'd like, I'll send you a follow up, but if neither of those works, we can also look for another way, because we're quite committed to making sure that we express our gratitude to you taking the time.

00:51:33.980 --> 00:51:45.860
<v Suraj> Also, what will happen now is we will transcribe the interview and we will wind up putting it on a website in the next, sometime in the next eight months or so before June.

00:51:46.499 --> 00:51:54.120
<v Suraj> And we will email you that transcript and the video so that you have those copies for your records, but also you can look them over.

00:51:54.120 --> 00:51:58.779
<v Suraj> And if there's anything you see that you say, "Oh, well I wouldn't want that on the website.

00:51:58.780 --> 00:51:59.940
<v Suraj> Maybe don't include that."

00:51:59.940 --> 00:52:02.660
<v Suraj> We're of course happy to remove it.

00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:04.989
<v Suraj> So really whatever works for you.

00:52:06.110 --> 00:52:13.950
<v Suraj> And again, just really grateful for you taking the time on a Saturday night to sit with us and tell us about this really powerful work.

00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:32.990
<v Suraj> Oh, also in that survey, what we'll do is, so I send you this follow up to give us your payment information, I'll also ask you in that survey for a brief biography and if there's any hyperlinks or information or programs that you'd like listed alongside your interview.

00:52:33.190 --> 00:52:36.800
<v Suraj> So already you sent me a lot of papers that I had read.

00:52:36.980 --> 00:52:47.020
<v Suraj> So anything you'd like to see listed alongside your interview, where our readers can read more about your work and about these communities and issues, feel free to include those as well.

00:52:48.389 --> 00:52:48.779
<v Boro> Fine.

00:52:49.040 --> 00:52:49.410
<v Boro> Fine.

00:52:51.100 --> 00:52:51.430
<v Boro> Yeah.

00:52:51.450 --> 00:52:52.910
<v Boro> Well thank you Suraj.

00:52:54.540 --> 00:53:04.020
<v Boro> I think it was a very good discussion and it's a very enriching experience for me too.

00:53:05.140 --> 00:53:10.254
<v Boro> And yeah, I think you just send me and I'll see.

00:53:10.254 --> 00:53:17.960
<v Boro> And we are in contact, so that will be no problem.

00:53:18.510 --> 00:53:19.030
<v Suraj> Yes.

00:53:19.060 --> 00:53:19.750
<v Suraj> Perfect.

00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:21.259
<v Suraj> Again, thank you so much.

00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:22.499
<v Suraj> I really appreciate this.

00:53:22.499 --> 00:53:37.650
<v Suraj> And this has been a very, very illuminating part of our interviews and I will of course follow up and send the subsequent information and throughout if you write anything new or you think of anything, of course, feel free to email me.

00:53:38.650 --> 00:53:39.960
<v Suraj> Again, really appreciate it.

00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:41.280
<v Suraj> And it's really nice to meet you.

00:53:42.499 --> 00:53:43.629
<v Boro> Okay, good.

00:53:44.340 --> 00:53:44.779
<v Boro> Thank you.

00:53:44.889 --> 00:53:46.060
<v Boro> Thank you so much Suraj.

00:53:46.150 --> 00:53:46.540
<v Suraj> Okay.

00:53:46.570 --> 00:53:47.250
<v Suraj> Thank you.

00:53:47.700 --> 00:53:49.180
<v Boro> Okay, bye.

00:53:50.050 --> 00:53:50.360
<v Suraj> Bye.

00:53:50.690 --> 00:53:50.810
<v Boro> Bye.

00:53:50.810 --> 00:53:50.820
<v Boro> Bye.