WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.290
<v Gayithri> Okay.

00:00:00.580 --> 00:00:09.270
<v Gayithri> So maybe just to get started, can you formally introduce yourself in whatever ways you feel comfortable?

00:00:09.270 --> 00:00:12.900
<v Gayithri> How would you introduce yourself to our audience?

00:00:13.139 --> 00:00:13.499
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:00:14.799 --> 00:00:15.149
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:15.399
<v Farhat> Hi Gayithri.

00:00:17.109 --> 00:00:29.490
<v Farhat> My name is Farhat Ara and I'll introduce myself as a learner, as an educator, science educator and an educational researcher.

00:00:30.270 --> 00:00:38.880
<v Farhat> And I have been working in Srishti Manipal Institute of Art Design and Technology for the last eight years.

00:00:39.590 --> 00:00:47.300
<v Farhat> And before that I did my PhD in design and technology education from Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education in Mumbai.

00:00:48.370 --> 00:01:00.530
<v Farhat> And this is the learning has been in terms of, as a science educator, it had been a little tough to kind of fit myself.

00:01:00.850 --> 00:01:06.962
<v Farhat> I looked at Srishti’s profile and I said, "Oh, wow, this is something that I wanted to work in because they were working in education and something in design.

00:01:06.962 --> 00:01:06.969
<v Farhat> But when I actually joined, I realized that, "Oh, this is actually a design Institute.

00:01:06.969 --> 00:01:06.974
<v Farhat> They are real designers here."

00:01:06.974 --> 00:01:21.259
<v Farhat> And I was looking at design and technology for middle school children.

00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:41.419
<v Farhat> So that was an interesting thing, but I got to learn a lot from my colleagues and the design practitioners there and try to incorporate and develop my own niche as a science educator and trying to connect design with other as disciplines, yeah.

00:01:41.419 --> 00:01:47.540
<v Farhat> And I'm going to share about that journey as to how I did that and created my own niche in that space.

00:01:48.250 --> 00:01:49.530
<v Gayithri> Brilliant, beautiful.

00:01:49.590 --> 00:01:50.429
<v Gayithri> I'm excited.

00:01:51.250 --> 00:01:53.350
<v Gayithri> So we can get us started.

00:01:53.440 --> 00:02:06.719
<v Gayithri> If you can share a little about your, like the research projects that you're working on currently with your students, teachers, and maybe even designers and more broadly your work in design education.

00:02:07.469 --> 00:02:07.799
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:02:07.809 --> 00:02:11.910
<v Farhat> Do you want me to start with what I did as a design…

00:02:14.700 --> 00:02:14.989
<v Gayithri> sure.

00:02:15.679 --> 00:02:17.560
<v Farhat> As my research project and my...

00:02:18.050 --> 00:02:18.807
<v Farhat> Because I can-

00:02:18.807 --> 00:02:21.609
<v Gayithri> or you can start with a project you are currently doing okay.

00:02:21.610 --> 00:02:22.549
<v Gayithri> You feel that that's a better-

00:02:22.850 --> 00:02:30.549
<v Farhat> that kind of a flow, because that really helps me align with what I want to and construct my argument around that.

00:02:30.750 --> 00:02:30.990
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:02:31.050 --> 00:02:31.390
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:02:31.550 --> 00:02:32.300
<v Gayithri> Go ahead please.

00:02:32.470 --> 00:02:32.880
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:02:33.270 --> 00:02:55.709
<v Farhat> So yeah, my research was contextualized as you know, that within this larger framework of design and technology education program in Mumbai at home Homi Bhabha Centre and the broad goal of this program was to introduce design and technology education for Indian middle school children.

00:02:56.459 --> 00:03:09.040
<v Farhat> And so my research has two broad parts, which is, looking at exploring student teachers and designers, ideas about design and attitude towards designers and design.

00:03:09.460 --> 00:03:17.510
<v Farhat> And the second part was about developing a theoretical framework based on the survey for developing design activities for the curriculum.

00:03:18.029 --> 00:03:27.019
<v Farhat> So the first part I did it through survey and semi-structured interviews, and the second part was through workshops and iterations that I tried out.

00:03:27.469 --> 00:03:41.750
<v Farhat> And so from the analysis, it was, it's quite apparent that students would generate the ideas and associate design mostly with the art practices, with decoration painting and pattern making.

00:03:42.070 --> 00:03:46.740
<v Farhat> But it was also teachers who believed, or had this ideas about design.

00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:54.960
<v Farhat> And students and teachers through the interview process also, I came to realize that it was also something.

00:03:54.960 --> 00:04:03.630
<v Farhat> Their ideas were influenced by how design was portrayed in the media, as something which is very trivial and relegated to the status of decoration and aesthetics.

00:04:04.859 --> 00:04:08.089
<v Farhat> So my second part of my...

00:04:11.549 --> 00:04:22.530
<v Farhat> I think I would love to talk about another aspect of my research was where younger students were asked to draw a designer at work.

00:04:22.870 --> 00:04:26.050
<v Farhat> And in this task, I...

00:04:26.050 --> 00:04:27.420
<v Farhat> No, sorry, not the younger students.

00:04:27.500 --> 00:04:30.105
<v Farhat> I think all of them were asked to draw a designer at work.

00:04:30.209 --> 00:04:46.510
<v Farhat> And in this drawing task, both boys and girls, they seem to have assigned gender and professional stereotypes in their drawings by depicting more number of female designers and that also more number of female dress designers of fashion designers.

00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:59.690
<v Farhat> And interestingly, this stereotype seemed to grow progressively with age, which means that older children were depicting more female dress designers and artists than younger students.

00:05:03.210 --> 00:05:13.860
<v Farhat> Coming in my second part of my work was around looking at developing a theoretical framework for developing and organizing the design activities.

00:05:14.220 --> 00:05:25.690
<v Farhat> And I looked at Phil Roberts’s model of looking at what are the different roles that students can take in a design classroom?

00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:40.790
<v Farhat> So it could be the context of designer, the maker, the user, and the observer, and this four roles view really helped me to develop my design activities and organize the experiences of students.

00:05:41.629 --> 00:05:48.760
<v Farhat> And, so that's the broader frame that I wanted to share about my thesis.

00:05:49.340 --> 00:06:14.384
<v Farhat> And the idea that this has my own personal understanding of design has transformed so much, but when I actually joined at a workplace with professional designers, and I'm going to talk about it later as the conversation grows.

00:06:14.599 --> 00:06:14.919
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:16.049
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:06:16.180 --> 00:06:16.750
<v Gayithri> For sure.

00:06:17.260 --> 00:06:21.150
<v Gayithri> So where geographically, was this work located?

00:06:21.150 --> 00:06:27.020
<v Gayithri> The place where you asked the folks to draw designer at work?

00:06:27.059 --> 00:06:27.849
<v Farhat> Yeah, yeah.

00:06:27.849 --> 00:06:48.590
<v Farhat> So these were all from Mumbai and the students were the children of employees from the Homi Bhabha Centre Research Center and the Department of [inaudible] and these were employees from a diverse levels of occupation ranging from a technician or a mechanic to the scientific officers and scientists.

00:06:48.930 --> 00:06:52.525
<v Farhat> And the students also came with diverse cultural and linguistic backgrounds.

00:06:52.760 --> 00:06:54.039
<v Farhat> And this really helped me.

00:06:54.539 --> 00:07:04.330
<v Farhat> This was interesting because I wanted to see what are the counterparts in their own language about design, about how did they understood design in their own Indian languages?

00:07:05.070 --> 00:07:15.750
<v Farhat> And, yeah, so, and the teachers also similarly came from diverse linguistic background and designer sample was very few, very located.

00:07:15.810 --> 00:07:34.950
<v Farhat> These are all design students, PhD students and I wanted to see a comparison between what are the nuanced ideas in the design among the design professionals vis-a-vis the understanding of design among the students and teachers.

00:07:35.670 --> 00:07:38.640
<v Farhat> That was the main idea of comparing as well.

00:07:39.540 --> 00:07:39.940
<v Gayithri> Nice.

00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:45.450
<v Gayithri> And I know you mentioned that there was linguistic diversity.

00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:47.230
<v Gayithri> Would you want to just comment a little?

00:07:47.300 --> 00:07:47.630
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:07:47.970 --> 00:07:57.950
<v Farhat> It was, I think most of them came up with words like color as the one that associated with design.

00:07:59.210 --> 00:08:03.790
<v Farhat> I mean color or counterparts of color in other Indian languages.

00:08:04.340 --> 00:08:10.039
<v Farhat> And so I had one translator who would really literally sat together together and said, "What does this word mean?

00:08:10.039 --> 00:08:11.880
<v Farhat> In Kannada, what does it mean?"

00:08:12.280 --> 00:08:19.256
<v Farhat> Whatever the students had written and all of them irrespectively of what state they came from.

00:08:19.256 --> 00:08:20.510
<v Farhat> It was all color.

00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:22.620
<v Farhat> The word that they associated with design.

00:08:23.020 --> 00:08:27.820
<v Farhat> Whereas when we talked to designers, they said, "No more.

00:08:28.170 --> 00:08:28.800
<v Farhat> Color is art.

00:08:28.830 --> 00:08:29.510
<v Farhat> We are designers.

00:08:29.510 --> 00:08:31.630
<v Farhat> We are not artists."

00:08:33.400 --> 00:08:34.370
<v Farhat> So, yeah.

00:08:34.370 --> 00:08:39.870
<v Farhat> So that was the interesting thing that I found out.

00:08:45.060 --> 00:08:46.930
<v Gayithri> Anything else you want to add about...

00:08:46.930 --> 00:08:52.569
<v Gayithri> I know you mentioned that students were coming from homes of different kinds.

00:08:52.569 --> 00:08:54.859
<v Gayithri> Would you want to elaborate a little on that?

00:08:57.170 --> 00:08:59.880
<v Farhat> I personally, I mean, there was not.

00:09:01.450 --> 00:09:14.220
<v Farhat> Even though the students came from a different background, the fact that the language, there was this aspect of language that I probed them on one aspect.

00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:30.280
<v Farhat> I think there was this overall attitude towards design that, which was very common across all students, in respect to what the...

00:09:30.660 --> 00:09:38.420
<v Farhat> The interesting thing was that they understood what, they perceived design as something which was meant only for women or girls.

00:09:40.850 --> 00:09:46.790
<v Farhat> It was not like they, "Oh, I would want to learn about design, but yeah, this is not meant for me as a boy.

00:09:47.040 --> 00:09:48.050
<v Farhat> It is for girls."

00:09:48.370 --> 00:09:52.459
<v Farhat> These are soft, skilled professions, and these are meant for girls.

00:09:52.840 --> 00:10:04.080
<v Farhat> And I think this has important implications because when teaching right now in Srishti, we see a larger population of students as girls here.

00:10:05.190 --> 00:10:05.300
<v Gayithri> Wow.

00:10:05.570 --> 00:10:06.159
<v Farhat> You, and yeah.

00:10:06.160 --> 00:10:20.340
<v Farhat> I mean, you can actually see how this kind of imagery and this kind of attitude actually reflects in practice where you actually see more representation of women and girls in design institutes.

00:10:21.270 --> 00:10:21.510
<v Gayithri> Interesting.

00:10:22.330 --> 00:10:28.659
<v Gayithri> So it's gotten a gendered connotation from middle school that kind of then shows off in these settings.

00:10:28.669 --> 00:10:29.819
<v Farhat> Yeah, absolutely.

00:10:30.309 --> 00:10:47.519
<v Farhat> And I think I wanted to talk about it later, where I was also interested in looking at gender, how gender plays out in different places starting from school textbooks, even looking at...

00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:53.879
<v Farhat> If you look at the kind of visual representations that you have in school textbooks and the imageries, it is so...

00:10:53.879 --> 00:11:01.890
<v Farhat> There are so many stereotypes and discriminations that are already associated with imageries.

00:11:04.820 --> 00:11:08.390
<v Farhat> And these visual images are very powerful.

00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:12.010
<v Farhat> They tend to speak more than words, right?

00:11:12.340 --> 00:11:12.440
<v Gayithri> Yes.

00:11:12.650 --> 00:11:18.590
<v Farhat> So it's how they are internalized these stereotypes through imageries.

00:11:18.590 --> 00:11:34.900
<v Farhat> And then if you actually see that reflected in career choices, because you don't see women represented in STEM courses or women represented even in occupations, and that's the reason why you choose certain occupations.

00:11:35.280 --> 00:11:35.630
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:37.420
<v Gayithri> Yeah, yeah.

00:11:38.490 --> 00:11:38.940
<v Gayithri> For sure.

00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:42.749
<v Gayithri> Well hopefully we will get to that as we continue.

00:11:43.220 --> 00:11:50.600
<v Gayithri> So speaking of your current practice, how would you describe your professional role right now?

00:11:51.429 --> 00:11:59.020
<v Farhat> Yeah, so I'm a faculty at Srishti Manipal Institute of Art, Design, and Technology.

00:11:59.079 --> 00:12:06.290
<v Farhat> And this is, India's one of the most renowned Institute in design and also one of the oldest.

00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:17.579
<v Farhat> I would, again, as I said, my practice would be as a learner, as an educator and as an educational researcher, I have been engaged in teaching courses.

00:12:18.139 --> 00:12:40.490
<v Farhat> And also right now, currently I'm co-heading a course at Srishti as the head of studies called The Creative Education Course and this is fairly a new course introduced in Srishti and perhaps one of the only Institute in India that offers a design degree for an education course.

00:12:42.380 --> 00:12:58.550
<v Farhat> It's quite challenging and equally exciting to work in this interdisciplinary space, because when we look at education and learning from a designerly lens, how do you bring in innovation and creativity in that space of learning?

00:12:59.130 --> 00:13:08.180
<v Farhat> And the main idea is to look if you use art and design tools when we are facilitating for these students.

00:13:08.180 --> 00:13:20.220
<v Farhat> And there are also these mindful practices and reflective approaches in our learning approach.

00:13:20.230 --> 00:13:55.660
<v Farhat> As the head of studies, I also have this responsibility of managing the course, providing academic leadership for the course in terms of helping facilitators who are teaching courses in creative education with planning, if they want to, or ensuring that the plan that they make reflects the course objectives and also address students' concerns and provide and in fact, track each and every student and guide them throughout the course.

00:13:55.660 --> 00:13:55.700
<v Farhat> As a learner and collaborator, I think I always love to learn new things, new ideas, and new skills.

00:13:55.700 --> 00:13:55.725
<v Farhat> And I love to get inspired from people and their best practices.

00:13:55.725 --> 00:13:55.791
<v Farhat> So I try to emulate best practices in my work style and I believe that people can offer you new perspectives when you actually but you might not have thought of.

00:13:55.791 --> 00:13:55.852
<v Farhat> And this is the reason why I learned to code when I joined Srishti, and this was something for the first time that I had learned in my life.

00:13:55.852 --> 00:14:00.979
<v Farhat> Luckily I got acquainted with a few fantastic people in my workplace, and they really helped me to learn a great deal in terms of storytelling in terms of art practices.

00:14:00.979 --> 00:15:08.629
<v Farhat> And I learned Scratch on the go, and then also taught it to my son who was like, I think, five or six year old at that time, and then facilitated this to a group of kids from marginalized backgrounds.

00:15:09.149 --> 00:15:13.700
<v Farhat> They were from some urban slums in Bangalore.

00:15:14.910 --> 00:15:29.770
<v Farhat> It was a failure for me because I could not actually communicate in Kannada and it was struggling with the language and also troubleshooting on Scratch was challenging for me.

00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:51.090
<v Farhat> But it got as an event as an eye opener for me, because I happened to also got an opportunity to interact with one of the ex-Srishti students who was working with MIT Media Lab during that time.

00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:58.280
<v Farhat> And she happened to come and do workshops with the same kids that I had worked with.

00:15:58.850 --> 00:16:21.009
<v Farhat> And really it was a great learning experience for me to witness how she used storytelling and how she used art as a way of self expression, and as a way of really communicating with each other and making stories using technology and design.

00:16:21.529 --> 00:16:31.460
<v Farhat> So that really helped me to really see how do I place myself, how do I place what I have learned?

00:16:31.830 --> 00:16:34.910
<v Farhat> I am also fascinated with science and life science.

00:16:35.160 --> 00:16:42.519
<v Farhat> How do I really use science, with stories, with design and with art as well as technology?

00:16:42.740 --> 00:16:43.060
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:16:43.980 --> 00:16:53.590
<v Farhat> So as a teaching faculty, then I have been engaged in developing interdisciplinary units, both at the graduate level and the postgraduate level.

00:16:54.020 --> 00:17:03.189
<v Farhat> And I really love to work at this confluence of art, design, literature, history of science and philosophy of science.

00:17:04.659 --> 00:17:05.159
<v Gayithri> Brilliant.

00:17:08.970 --> 00:17:15.559
<v Gayithri> Can you tell a little about the community with whom you work, the geographic context in which all of this work is going on?

00:17:15.569 --> 00:17:28.060
<v Gayithri> I know you briefly mentioned that you worked with the socioeconomic leaders at the engaged pockets of Bangalore initially, but then if you want to expand a little more on that.

00:17:28.060 --> 00:17:28.440
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:17:30.020 --> 00:17:41.899
<v Farhat> So that was a special school, which was where special guidance, which, where Srishti was worked for their curriculum, was developing the curriculum for this particular school.

00:17:43.060 --> 00:17:47.874
<v Farhat> Whereas this is apart from the students community at Srishti.

00:17:47.874 --> 00:18:00.010
<v Farhat> The community of students, at Srishti and the teachers that I work with, they come from all over India and they are diverse in terms of culture, language, and even practice.

00:18:00.469 --> 00:18:19.479
<v Farhat> So, you have as a faculty and as a facilitator, we are very sensitive to this and provide support in terms of every kind of support in terms of embracing this diversity and making the class very inclusive.

00:18:19.479 --> 00:18:30.389
<v Farhat> And we also have students who need learning support and who have identified themselves with certain extra support needs, or that they require.

00:18:31.149 --> 00:18:34.639
<v Farhat> And they identify themselves during the time of admission.

00:18:35.020 --> 00:18:48.890
<v Farhat> And we monitor these students individually, and help them and provide appropriate support through the course during teaching, during assessment and help them in learning.

00:18:50.000 --> 00:19:00.930
<v Farhat> The teaching community, of course, again, as I said, they are also coming from diverse backgrounds with culturally different and also diverse set of practices.

00:19:01.370 --> 00:19:06.130
<v Farhat> So you have artists and designs from different disciplines.

00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:17.340
<v Farhat> You have mathematicians, you have environmentalists, you have ecologists, you have science educators, storytellers, filmmakers, and performers.

00:19:17.350 --> 00:19:26.429
<v Farhat> So I think this rich set of diversity allows for a lot of collaborations to happen among faculty.

00:19:26.630 --> 00:19:31.419
<v Farhat> And this has led to some really interesting and innovative courses to develop.

00:19:31.770 --> 00:19:35.379
<v Farhat> I think there is no...

00:19:35.530 --> 00:19:42.329
<v Farhat> We don't have a separate distinct discipline or a department, right.

00:19:42.590 --> 00:19:50.460
<v Farhat> So it's very open and there is a lot of intermingling of ideas and practices also as well.

00:19:51.020 --> 00:19:51.230
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:52.170
<v Gayithri> Interesting.

00:19:52.380 --> 00:20:05.459
<v Gayithri> And would you want to explain, maybe give an example of any one of those innovative or very interesting course or something that came up because of these collaborations?

00:20:05.500 --> 00:20:05.970
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:20:05.970 --> 00:20:09.630
<v Farhat> I think one of the course that I did with...

00:20:09.630 --> 00:20:24.370
<v Farhat> I was interested in biology and in life science and there was a faculty who was in visual communication and we wanted to marry visual communication with life science.

00:20:24.930 --> 00:20:28.620
<v Farhat> And this was a project space where students had...

00:20:28.719 --> 00:20:33.100
<v Farhat> This was a fourth year project where students had to work independently most of the time.

00:20:33.690 --> 00:20:40.659
<v Farhat> And we provided them with the art and design tools and the context, and they came up with diverse set of ideas.

00:20:42.959 --> 00:20:53.280
<v Farhat> So life science was a springboard for them to use the content of life science and the product outcome was in terms of visual communication.

00:20:53.590 --> 00:21:04.820
<v Farhat> So it could be books, it could be posters, it could be videos, animation, films, but the content has to be around life science.

00:21:05.260 --> 00:21:28.589
<v Farhat> So it was a very interesting project and I just loved it because I had seen something for the first time that, just a context of life science and we looked at different ideas in science, in life science, classification of organisms, playing with hydro, playing with microbes and giving them different kinds of ideas to work around.

00:21:28.870 --> 00:21:35.579
<v Farhat> And they took it in two different directions and came up with different ideas in visual communications.

00:21:35.740 --> 00:21:36.020
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:21:37.100 --> 00:22:06.880
<v Farhat> And there was one more where one of we co-designed one unit where I was working with Scratch and one of my colleagues, she was working with storytelling and understanding communities and that was a really beautiful course that I co-facilitated with her, where we looked at how storytelling could be done through Scratch and using digital media, as well as physical materials out there.

00:22:07.080 --> 00:22:09.210
<v Farhat> And we did role plays and performances.

00:22:09.690 --> 00:22:12.739
<v Farhat> So that was also something that was very exciting.

00:22:12.989 --> 00:22:13.269
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:22:14.089 --> 00:22:14.689
<v Gayithri> Beautiful.

00:22:15.100 --> 00:22:25.320
<v Gayithri> And I know you mentioned earlier about how it is a predominantly female group of students that Srishti has historically attracted.

00:22:26.330 --> 00:22:35.570
<v Gayithri> Do you want to comment on that more for how this has shaped your teaching and learning in classrooms or the codes design?

00:22:35.580 --> 00:22:35.600
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:22:39.800 --> 00:22:41.499
<v Farhat> I mean, there are certain...

00:22:42.410 --> 00:23:00.710
<v Farhat> I mean, now that I reflect back, it's really when you look at some of the courses have more voice and then when you actually look at which are those courses which attracts more boys, and those are animation courses.

00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:03.859
<v Farhat> Those are human centered design courses.

00:23:04.330 --> 00:23:09.885
<v Farhat> Those are user experience design courses, right.

00:23:10.250 --> 00:23:12.800
<v Farhat> And which are the courses which have more female students?

00:23:12.870 --> 00:23:24.349
<v Farhat> You say those are contemporary art practices, those are creative education, those are perhaps more...

00:23:24.670 --> 00:23:27.560
<v Farhat> You see a balance between product designing, you see both of them.

00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:34.290
<v Farhat> But there are definitely some courses which attract more female students and some which are more...

00:23:34.910 --> 00:24:05.930
<v Farhat> And perhaps it comes from a certain kind of stereotypes and imaginations about what career suits a girl and which are the softer, design domains, and which are the hard skills, human centered, for example, you working with technology, you're working with user interface, and then business, “BSSG” is another course which we have, where it's associated with entrepreneurship and business strategies.

00:24:06.130 --> 00:24:08.280
<v Farhat> You'll find more boys there, right.

00:24:08.570 --> 00:24:17.430
<v Farhat> So of course this kind of imaginations are coming from that stereotypes that are already existing in society.

00:24:17.650 --> 00:24:17.840
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:24:17.840 --> 00:24:18.620
<v Gayithri> For sure.

00:24:23.560 --> 00:24:24.620
<v Gayithri> Are these electives?

00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:28.960
<v Gayithri> So do you try to talk to students before they take these courses or-

00:24:29.010 --> 00:24:29.880
<v Farhat> Yeah, yeah.

00:24:30.040 --> 00:24:30.300
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:24:30.340 --> 00:24:31.790
<v Farhat> We really mentor them.

00:24:32.460 --> 00:24:47.079
<v Farhat> And if the students are lacking in certain say, for example, if they're lacking in design thinking skills, then we really help them say that, "Okay, you have not have enough credits on design thinking," or something that will help you build your portfolios.

00:24:47.540 --> 00:24:49.210
<v Farhat> Then you must take these courses.

00:24:49.219 --> 00:25:05.289
<v Farhat> So we really help each of those students to navigate through the courses and the beautiful part about creative education, the course that I'm co-leading with my colleague is that this is a very interdisciplinary course.

00:25:05.660 --> 00:25:21.560
<v Farhat> So education is situated everywhere and we do not look at education only in the classroom context, but in diverse spaces, like museums, zoos, even spaces like public spaces, how can learning happen there?

00:25:22.040 --> 00:25:30.820
<v Farhat> And by wondering that widens the scope of where you can actually design intervention and facilitate learning in those spaces.

00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:42.909
<v Farhat> So, what happens is that these students can actually have maybe 35% in their core discipline, but they can actually take from other disciplines as well.

00:25:43.530 --> 00:25:49.659
<v Farhat> So they are situated in their course, but navigate between other courses.

00:25:49.670 --> 00:26:01.000
<v Farhat> So they're taking human centered design, they go for business strategies, they go for visual communication and take up the skills from there so that it generates two other skills that they can gather.

00:26:02.090 --> 00:26:04.660
<v Gayithri> Nice, nice.

00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:10.130
<v Farhat> I wanted to share my experience once as when you're now talking about it.

00:26:10.340 --> 00:26:11.710
<v Farhat> It's long and I forgot.

00:26:11.710 --> 00:26:15.729
<v Farhat> It was one of the...

00:26:16.420 --> 00:26:18.640
<v Farhat> It's like how stereotypes...

00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:22.224
<v Farhat> So this was the first time that I had taken up hijab.

00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:23.864
<v Farhat> You know me, right.

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:24.940
<v Farhat> I was not, I was-

00:26:25.220 --> 00:26:26.254
<v Gayithri> Exactly, that was one of the things.

00:26:26.254 --> 00:26:29.270
<v Gayithri> And I was like, I know that it's also very sensitive.

00:26:29.460 --> 00:26:40.340
<v Farhat> It was something that I wanted to identify myself with and I mean, I don't know, I just had a conversation with someone and they said, "Hey, you don't look like a Muslim."

00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:41.530
<v Farhat> I said, "Okay.

00:26:42.030 --> 00:26:45.270
<v Farhat> I will look like a Muslim."

00:26:45.320 --> 00:26:47.479
<v Farhat> And you will, from far, you will know.

00:26:47.899 --> 00:26:53.260
<v Farhat> And whatever you have to say, you have to say it in front of me on my face and I'm going to be dressed up this way.

00:26:53.950 --> 00:26:59.889
<v Farhat> So anyway, and then what happened was that I was offering one.

00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:05.969
<v Farhat> So we don't disclose when the students are choosing electives or any courses.

00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:14.360
<v Farhat> We don't disclose the names of the faculty because that creates bias and you have more students signing up for particular faculty.

00:27:14.810 --> 00:27:15.525
<v Farhat> And so it's-

00:27:15.525 --> 00:27:19.149
<v Gayithri> Just the course that is being offered, but you don't tell who's instructing the courses.

00:27:19.169 --> 00:27:20.139
<v Farhat> Yeah, exactly.

00:27:20.299 --> 00:27:25.969
<v Farhat> So we just give them the abstract and not disclose other than that.

00:27:26.520 --> 00:27:45.160
<v Farhat> So there was this course that I was offering, which was Critical Issues in Science and Technology, and really looking at this interplay of science, technology, and society and this was early on when I had joined Srishti and I was really interested in doing that.

00:27:45.890 --> 00:27:50.910
<v Farhat> And many of the boys joined this course and I was intimidated.

00:27:50.910 --> 00:27:56.869
<v Farhat> I said, "Oh,” out of 30 students, there were more...

00:27:56.939 --> 00:27:59.450
<v Farhat> I think 75% of them were boys.

00:28:00.209 --> 00:28:09.400
<v Farhat> And when I entered the classroom on the first day, it was like, "Are you facilitating this course?"

00:28:10.840 --> 00:28:11.570
<v Farhat> I said, "Yes."

00:28:12.870 --> 00:28:14.520
<v Farhat> "You are facilitating this course?"

00:28:14.889 --> 00:28:15.810
<v Farhat> I said, "Yes.

00:28:17.850 --> 00:28:19.570
<v Farhat> “Science, technology and society?"

00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:20.610
<v Farhat> I said, "Yes."

00:28:22.600 --> 00:28:27.190
<v Farhat> It was very, very starking, like on my face, right.

00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:34.560
<v Farhat> And after that I think just on the first day itself, the second day, a few of the students wanted to leave the course.

00:28:35.409 --> 00:28:39.259
<v Gayithri> They told that or implicit…

00:28:40.379 --> 00:28:40.889
<v Farhat> Implicit.

00:28:41.049 --> 00:28:41.379
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:28:41.399 --> 00:28:51.099
<v Farhat> It implicit, because on the first day itself, we had something about, you talked about some politics and something, and then they didn't appreciate.

00:28:52.289 --> 00:28:56.639
<v Farhat> But it was something like, I was really shaken.

00:28:56.869 --> 00:29:00.049
<v Farhat> That shook me, but yeah.

00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:02.039
<v Farhat> I said, "Okay, no problem.

00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:07.969
<v Farhat> I'm just going to do what I'm doing and what I love doing best," so yeah.

00:29:10.429 --> 00:29:14.889
<v Gayithri> That must have shook you because coming from Homi Bhabha.

00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:15.799
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:29:16.939 --> 00:29:22.799
<v Gayithri> Like in Srishti, you would've thought, some ideas about what these spaces will feel like for you.

00:29:22.959 --> 00:29:23.389
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:29:24.419 --> 00:29:24.649
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:29:24.649 --> 00:29:29.599
<v Farhat> But then it was also my first experience of teaching adult students.

00:29:30.969 --> 00:29:36.349
<v Farhat> Of really looking at what their aspirations are, what their motivations are.

00:29:38.459 --> 00:29:42.509
<v Farhat> Something that helped me, and these were all mature students, like 3rd years.

00:29:42.509 --> 00:30:02.269
<v Farhat> And so, I don't know, I mean, this incident was just on my face saying that, "Hey, there is a certain stereotypes associated with” what is the image of, and there were many, many things that were deeply visible.

00:30:03.209 --> 00:30:12.949
<v Farhat> For example, just that women cannot teach an STS or science technology program and that too a Muslim woman.

00:30:12.959 --> 00:30:17.419
<v Farhat> So how dare you teach something like that to us?

00:30:18.339 --> 00:30:22.419
<v Farhat> I mean, it was a nasty thing that happened on the first day.

00:30:22.439 --> 00:30:26.819
<v Farhat> And then, yeah, so that was something.

00:30:27.059 --> 00:30:29.559
<v Farhat> I mean, because we have certain discussions round politics, around government and that I think...

00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:50.819
<v Farhat> And the problem was that they were not able to take government as an objective body, but more as something that was more a political group rather than an objective body.

00:30:51.009 --> 00:30:53.749
<v Gayithri> And it is that it is beyond critique.

00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:55.169
<v Farhat> Yeah, exactly.

00:30:55.679 --> 00:30:56.999
<v Gayithri> Critique and it is sacred…

00:30:57.659 --> 00:30:58.259
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:30:58.449 --> 00:31:03.139
<v Farhat> It didn't set well and it really shook me and I have never taught that unit again.

00:31:04.019 --> 00:31:11.369
<v Gayithri> No, that's also unfortunate because your school should have if possible made room for more of those.

00:31:11.379 --> 00:31:11.399
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:31:12.229 --> 00:31:15.579
<v Farhat> But no, I have not shared that with my school.

00:31:15.719 --> 00:31:21.399
<v Farhat> No, I have not shared, so I was ashamed.

00:31:21.809 --> 00:31:22.799
<v Farhat> I was ashamed.

00:31:23.229 --> 00:31:25.159
<v Gayithri> No, but it should be the other way Farhat-

00:31:25.529 --> 00:31:26.549
<v Farhat> I know, I know.

00:31:26.579 --> 00:31:27.079
<v Farhat> I know, Gayithri.

00:31:28.499 --> 00:31:28.939
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:31:29.779 --> 00:31:39.139
<v Gayithri> We come to realize so many things like so much later, because it takes time to sit with it and to really grapple with what actually happened.

00:31:40.589 --> 00:31:51.929
<v Farhat> I was embarrassed to even share this and say that something like this has happened and to it reliving the same thing it's when you're sharing and now it's-

00:31:51.929 --> 00:31:52.889
<v Gayithri> Thank you so much.

00:31:52.909 --> 00:31:53.479
<v Gayithri> Thank you.

00:31:53.709 --> 00:31:55.227
<v Gayithri> And thanks a lot for sharing.

00:31:55.369 --> 00:31:56.399
<v Gayithri> It meant a lot for me.

00:31:56.679 --> 00:31:57.349
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:31:57.529 --> 00:32:04.049
<v Farhat> I mean, yeah, there are issues which I face in my day to day life because of I wear this.

00:32:04.049 --> 00:32:04.222
<v Gayithri> And openly identifying.

00:32:04.222 --> 00:32:04.279
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:04.337
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:32:04.337 --> 00:32:10.348
<v Farhat> And I hear comments like, "Oh, when are you going to wear your black robe now?

00:32:10.939 --> 00:32:16.669
<v Farhat> When are you going to cover your head now, cover your face now?"

00:32:17.459 --> 00:32:20.199
<v Farhat> And that keeps me strong.

00:32:20.209 --> 00:32:26.539
<v Farhat> I have learned to really take that and not get influenced by it at all now.

00:32:29.819 --> 00:32:33.859
<v Farhat> And I said that it is also something that...

00:32:35.169 --> 00:32:44.829
<v Farhat> It's not just a political decision, but also something that reminds me when I wear this, I know I cannot do any ugly thing in my life.

00:32:45.709 --> 00:32:51.259
<v Farhat> When I do this, I know that I cannot be doing any wrong things to anyone.

00:32:52.549 --> 00:33:01.099
<v Farhat> It's a constant reminder to me that I am a Muslim and I'm a good Muslim, that I am holding...

00:33:02.219 --> 00:33:13.071
<v Farhat> It's like responsibility that I am holding on myself saying that I cannot be doing bad things because it's then again, going to portray on the community.

00:33:13.071 --> 00:33:13.199
<v Farhat> So it is with a lot of responsibility that I'm wearing it.

00:33:13.199 --> 00:33:13.221
<v Farhat> I'm sorry.

00:33:13.221 --> 00:33:13.264
<v Gayithri> No, no, no, no.

00:33:13.264 --> 00:33:39.629
<v Gayithri> I hear you and just to add a little bit to that, that was one of the reasons that I actually stopped wearing a bindi and stopped wearing a mangal sutra or whatever because that is the expectation in my community so that I look more Hindu.

00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:44.379
<v Gayithri> But when I was working with teachers, there are all kinds of teachers.

00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:48.899
<v Gayithri> I don't want to identify in a way that makes me exclusive.

00:33:50.379 --> 00:33:56.974
<v Gayithri> That kind of throws on people's space that dominant power in this society, right.

00:33:57.189 --> 00:34:00.749
<v Gayithri> Just being a Hindu, being, especially a Brahman woman.

00:34:01.109 --> 00:34:07.649
<v Gayithri> It is already a lot of power that I have to grapple with for every space that I enter.

00:34:07.729 --> 00:34:12.949
<v Gayithri> Now I don't want to further it by decorating myself and flaunting it.

00:34:13.259 --> 00:34:25.269
<v Gayithri> Rather, I would try to see how I can make the space more equitable by dropping down some of those and to really be more open and welcoming.

00:34:26.229 --> 00:34:33.499
<v Gayithri> And that is when long back, this is even before I came here, I stopped wearing all of these for similar reasons.

00:34:34.339 --> 00:34:40.589
<v Gayithri> Political partly but more, it was about this personal empowerment.

00:34:41.369 --> 00:34:41.769
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:34:41.829 --> 00:34:51.229
<v Farhat> I mean, I feel empowered because now I know there are conversations behind my back and I don't care about it.

00:34:51.539 --> 00:34:56.829
<v Farhat> But now I say, my statement is that you have to accept me as I am.

00:34:57.429 --> 00:35:03.509
<v Farhat> You have to really, because this is not hindering my thinking process or anything in any way.

00:35:03.979 --> 00:35:06.649
<v Farhat> This is who I am and you have to accept me.

00:35:08.029 --> 00:35:13.799
<v Farhat> Even if I don't wear this, my name itself is suggestive of who I am, right.

00:35:14.059 --> 00:35:19.699
<v Farhat> So if you want to discriminate, you're going to discriminate even with my name even if I don't wear it, right.

00:35:20.009 --> 00:35:26.489
<v Farhat> So I wear it by choice because I want to be identified and I want you to accept me with that.

00:35:26.729 --> 00:35:26.809
<v Gayithri> Exactly.

00:35:27.069 --> 00:35:31.509
<v Farhat> So that's my, that is-

00:35:31.509 --> 00:35:31.932
<v Gayithri> That is your fuller self.

00:35:31.932 --> 00:35:32.188
<v Gayithri> That is your fuller self.

00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:32.579
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:35:32.709 --> 00:35:33.623
<v Gayithri> No, thanks for bringing that in.

00:35:33.623 --> 00:35:34.039
<v Gayithri> Yeah, no, that is very powerful, Farhat.

00:35:34.819 --> 00:35:39.619
<v Gayithri> I'm really proud of you.

00:35:39.619 --> 00:35:39.849
<v Farhat> Thank you.

00:35:43.479 --> 00:35:43.499
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:35:43.509 --> 00:35:45.099
<v Gayithri> How did you get into this?

00:35:45.329 --> 00:35:52.669
<v Gayithri> How did you start with this journey now, just thinking about what personally got you to do this work that you're doing today?

00:35:52.819 --> 00:35:56.829
<v Gayithri> What motivated you to take up design education?

00:35:57.469 --> 00:36:05.589
<v Farhat> Yeah, I mean, I think I, always I had been part of this design technology group during my co-graduate courses.

00:36:05.629 --> 00:36:13.419
<v Farhat> And I was reading a lot of things and they were already existing like research papers and people were doing this.

00:36:13.419 --> 00:36:14.219
<v Farhat> It was a large group.

00:36:14.269 --> 00:36:19.839
<v Farhat> I mean, not large, but maybe few people, two or three people were working already on design technology.

00:36:20.549 --> 00:36:38.549
<v Farhat> And I think what got me interested was to look at design as something which is different from, designability as different from the scientific ability or the humanities stream and that got me really interested.

00:36:38.689 --> 00:36:50.369
<v Farhat> And I think this is not my statement, but this has been a code by designers themselves like Bruce Archer, Nigel Cross, and many other, Bryan Lawson.

00:36:50.379 --> 00:36:54.239
<v Farhat> And they've always identified design as distinct from science and the humanities.

00:36:54.799 --> 00:36:57.159
<v Farhat> And they say that if design is something which is...

00:36:57.589 --> 00:37:16.489
<v Farhat> If we want literacy and numeracy to be a part of school curriculum, design leads to constructive thinking and externalizing thoughts, which is very different from scientific capabilities and that should be included as part of design for general education.

00:37:16.489 --> 00:37:21.729
<v Farhat> I think that got me really into really seeing how I should be working towards that.

00:37:22.989 --> 00:37:23.329
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:37:24.189 --> 00:37:24.889
<v Gayithri> Interesting.

00:37:25.899 --> 00:37:26.159
<v Gayithri> And-

00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:27.009
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:37:27.669 --> 00:37:27.879
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:37:27.879 --> 00:37:28.189
<v Gayithri> Sorry.

00:37:28.189 --> 00:37:28.483
<v Farhat> Go ahead.

00:37:28.629 --> 00:37:29.519
<v Farhat> No, no, it's okay.

00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:30.209
<v Farhat> Please go on.

00:37:31.069 --> 00:37:34.919
<v Gayithri> Oh, no, I was just asking, so how do you name the field?

00:37:35.089 --> 00:37:43.079
<v Gayithri> Do you call it design education or is there any other name that you or your research community or your practice community goes with?

00:37:43.729 --> 00:37:49.329
<v Farhat> Yeah, I think design education is what I would call it.

00:37:50.709 --> 00:37:53.989
<v Farhat> I'm talking about my research work.

00:37:54.169 --> 00:38:05.299
<v Farhat> Definitely that fits in within the framework or within the work of design and technology education or STEM learning, or STEAM learning so that I can easily place under.

00:38:05.869 --> 00:38:20.179
<v Farhat> My trouble starts when I start to place work, that I'm doing in Srishti right now, which is so interdisciplinary that it really, I find it difficult to really say where should I place it.

00:38:20.709 --> 00:38:45.149
<v Farhat> So just to give you an example of the courses that I've been teaching is to look at say Darwin's theory, evolutionary theory by natural selection and children’s literature, and to really see that connections between how Darwin's theory has influenced or children's authors of the contemporary times.

00:38:46.769 --> 00:38:47.789
<v Farhat> And then just to look at...

00:38:52.619 --> 00:39:04.679
<v Farhat> They look at how Darwin's theory has real life implications in terms of how this has been misappropriated, misused, social darwinism to uphold racism.

00:39:05.219 --> 00:39:19.416
<v Farhat> And then we looked at different aspects of Darwin's theory itself, but the idea was not to teach them content, not overwhelm them with scientific content, but to really appreciate how the theories developed in science and how it influences it.

00:39:19.416 --> 00:39:21.493
<v Farhat> It does not remain within its core, but influences everything around.

00:39:21.493 --> 00:39:48.039
<v Farhat> So these were something that I was exploring with my students and also one aspect which is very true in most science discoveries, which is about this single narrative or the single story.

00:39:48.369 --> 00:39:51.339
<v Farhat> There is this hero or the discoverer.

00:39:51.349 --> 00:39:55.979
<v Farhat> He or she is the one who is going to discover, and there is nobody around him.

00:39:55.989 --> 00:40:18.759
<v Farhat> So that we were challenging that narrative and because we were challenging that narrative, I have to really take them through the history of science to really see what were the different ideas and context where this person was working and how that person is actually sitting on the shoulders of different giants, not so he's or she's not this.

00:40:18.959 --> 00:40:36.399
<v Farhat> And then that we were looking at this in the context of Darwin's theory, we were looking at in the context of penicillin discovery, and Fleming's discovery and microbes and so there were different things that I'm working on and developing.

00:40:37.889 --> 00:40:43.929
<v Farhat> So these are some courses that I find difficult to really place under and name it.

00:40:44.389 --> 00:40:47.009
<v Farhat> So I'll give you one example I was working on.

00:40:47.839 --> 00:40:50.899
<v Farhat> I feel sometimes it's an opportunity actually.

00:40:51.469 --> 00:40:54.789
<v Farhat> Other way around its opportunity because you can place them in different…

00:40:55.449 --> 00:40:58.596
<v Gayithri> You're not forced to bucket yourself.

00:40:58.809 --> 00:40:59.909
<v Farhat> Yeah, exactly.

00:40:59.969 --> 00:41:00.249
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:41:00.249 --> 00:41:01.669
<v Farhat> This one does not agree.

00:41:01.699 --> 00:41:03.129
<v Farhat> Can I just send it somewhere else?

00:41:03.349 --> 00:41:13.219
<v Farhat> So for example, I was looking at functions, for example, functions in design and functions in biology.

00:41:14.629 --> 00:41:16.009
<v Farhat> These are something that connects, right?

00:41:18.129 --> 00:41:23.959
<v Farhat> And with functions, we look at biomimicry and bio-inspired design.

00:41:24.409 --> 00:41:41.509
<v Farhat> So I developed that unit and we had some really fantastic students, solutions that they came up with and we sent it to the Biomimicry Institute Global Design Challenge and of course we were just up to the semifinals rounds.

00:41:41.509 --> 00:41:53.959
<v Farhat> They could be selected for that, but they got some really good feedback from the judges, and that time was a very motivating thing for me, because I tried for the first time.

00:41:53.959 --> 00:42:03.986
<v Farhat> But what happened was that incidentally during that time, and I was planning to publish this as a paper and translate this into a paper and publish it in a biomimic journals.

00:42:03.986 --> 00:42:19.899
<v Farhat> However, what happened was that my ex colleagues from TISS, they invited me to write a chapter on visual spatial thinking in design.

00:42:21.499 --> 00:42:36.279
<v Farhat> And I had used a lot of visual materials and spatial materials with students in order to help them understand function and structure in biology, just to translate the content of biological, heavy content, make it easy.

00:42:36.609 --> 00:42:37.679
<v Farhat> And then I said, wow.

00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:44.409
<v Farhat> That's an interesting work that I could translate this paper into, that dimension and that aspect.

00:42:45.089 --> 00:42:45.569
<v Farhat> So, yeah.

00:42:46.469 --> 00:42:54.959
<v Farhat> And then we published it in a education journal and so, yeah, but I'm still writing papers for that.

00:42:55.869 --> 00:43:03.387
<v Gayithri> No, that's very interesting and also I can relate to a lot of it because my advisor here, she, along with her...

00:43:03.387 --> 00:43:08.971
<v Gayithri> She had a doctoral student who was very interested in this.

00:43:08.971 --> 00:43:12.017
<v Gayithri> He came with a biotechnology background.

00:43:12.017 --> 00:43:14.555
<v Gayithri> His name is Justice Walker.

00:43:14.555 --> 00:43:21.154
<v Gayithri> He's a big part of the Global Bio Summit and all of that.

00:43:21.154 --> 00:43:25.109
<v Gayithri> And they both together had a NSF project where they got high school students to do this bio design.

00:43:25.369 --> 00:43:26.689
<v Gayithri> They called it bio design.

00:43:27.389 --> 00:43:33.199
<v Gayithri> And then there, again, it was about manipulating an E cell for a particular function.

00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:35.109
<v Gayithri> And what does that mean?

00:43:35.109 --> 00:43:36.339
<v Gayithri> And, yeah.

00:43:36.959 --> 00:43:51.029
<v Farhat> I know, I mean, those are something that are, I mean, I consider them as high end, high tech classrooms, which are enabled with all these materials.

00:43:51.029 --> 00:43:52.499
<v Gayithri> Incubators and-

00:43:53.329 --> 00:43:57.809
<v Farhat> And instruments, and I practice frugal design and frugal-

00:43:58.509 --> 00:43:58.869
<v Gayithri> Perfect.

00:43:59.379 --> 00:44:00.183
<v Gayithri> How do you do that?

00:44:00.183 --> 00:44:01.149
<v Gayithri> Do you want to tell a little more-

00:44:01.149 --> 00:44:01.499
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:44:01.499 --> 00:44:01.969
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:44:01.969 --> 00:44:06.569
<v Farhat> So for example, I know there are many ways.

00:44:06.699 --> 00:44:10.389
<v Farhat> So my labs are the kitchen labs.

00:44:10.919 --> 00:44:15.759
<v Farhat> So I look at and explore a lot of these easy experiments that can be done.

00:44:24.269 --> 00:44:30.289
<v Farhat> For example just extracting DNA, for example and you have lot of materials and to really do that.

00:44:30.859 --> 00:44:35.009
<v Farhat> And of course, I mean, it's not something that they can really get it.

00:44:35.349 --> 00:44:39.009
<v Farhat> The idea is to really inspire them and motivate them.

00:44:40.269 --> 00:44:47.519
<v Farhat> And I mean, the home kitchen DNA that you get, I mean, it doesn't tell you anything, right.

00:44:47.539 --> 00:45:03.879
<v Farhat> But what it does tell you is to create interest for life science and to really see how I as a designer can do something and take inspiration from this and create an artistic or a design response towards this.

00:45:05.369 --> 00:45:16.159
<v Farhat> So those are something that I do or something like another thing that we do is to really use laser pens and create microscopes using that.

00:45:16.409 --> 00:45:34.839
<v Farhat> Just a droplet of water and laser pen and we just throw that light and you'll see unicellular microbes on a screen.Or maybe, hack a webcam, an old webcam and create a digital microscope using that.

00:45:35.369 --> 00:46:05.329
<v Farhat> So I've been really using all these frugal methods of, you can say, democratizing science and getting students to access that, things that are…of course if I request these things could be available, but as a designer, they need to also see that, "How do I really reclaim resources and redesign something that is in a frugal manner,” right.

00:46:05.499 --> 00:46:09.839
<v Farhat> Not really going for high end microscopes and do that, right.

00:46:10.459 --> 00:46:15.389
<v Farhat> I do have microscopes that they engage in, but these are something that we try and do.

00:46:15.429 --> 00:46:27.809
<v Farhat> So I'm an ardent fan of Arvind Gupta, his toys and all and see how that can really help students learn a lot of things and unpack a lot of science concepts.

00:46:28.789 --> 00:46:29.209
<v Gayithri> Beautiful.

00:46:29.529 --> 00:46:32.139
<v Gayithri> That brings us frankly to our next question.

00:46:32.789 --> 00:46:33.651
<v Gayithri> Who are your role models?

00:46:33.651 --> 00:46:34.445
<v Gayithri> Who are your inspirers or motivators to do this work?

00:46:34.445 --> 00:47:01.189
<v Farhat> Yeah, I think, I mean, I am like a constructivist, but I take inspiration from also Seymour Papert, and my thesis was heavily influenced by his work, but also something...

00:47:02.739 --> 00:47:03.699
<v Farhat> But, you know what?

00:47:03.739 --> 00:47:08.459
<v Farhat> I feel, I have learned deeply by actually engaging in the practice.

00:47:08.529 --> 00:47:11.949
<v Farhat> When you're doing PhD it's like, you are just being part of...

00:47:12.429 --> 00:47:20.759
<v Farhat> You're just talking in theories, but when you actually come and situate yourself in the real context, you'd learn better.

00:47:21.139 --> 00:47:30.899
<v Farhat> And so real understanding of Constructionism was actually when I actually got in here and really practiced.

00:47:31.629 --> 00:47:41.119
<v Farhat> Mitch Resnick is something also that I really admire his work and try to follow his Four Ps in my classrooms.

00:47:41.729 --> 00:47:45.099
<v Farhat> And let me see my notes…

00:47:45.149 --> 00:47:45.789
<v Gayithri> No worries.

00:47:45.949 --> 00:47:47.039
<v Gayithri> Take your time.

00:47:48.809 --> 00:47:49.119
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:47:49.119 --> 00:48:12.829
<v Farhat> I think in the contemporary ones, Duckworth is something also that I take inspiration from and because I have to make my classrooms more inclusive and to use different kinds of senses and not just the visual and the cognitive.

00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:28.699
<v Farhat> So I rely a lot on Gardner's Multiple Intelligences and see really try to translate that into my practice and see what are the different ways in which I can really get the students to learn using their different senses.

00:48:29.219 --> 00:48:39.239
<v Farhat> And I also draw from this Harvard Project Zo, tools for thinking or the thinking routines.

00:48:39.709 --> 00:48:52.189
<v Farhat> And that has also really helped me to really help students translate their ideas and externalize that onto creating something in the external world.

00:48:52.489 --> 00:49:00.179
<v Farhat> So those are something that have helped me facilitate in classrooms.

00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:12.549
<v Farhat> I'm really fascinated with the entire work of MIT Media Lab that they're doing with, and the work that you do, something on using electronics in storytelling.

00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:16.509
<v Farhat> So that is something that is very, very powerful for me.

00:49:16.509 --> 00:49:31.549
<v Farhat> And I want to really use that in my practice to see how storytelling with electronics, how can I really use that along with biology because my biology is always going to come in somewhere.

00:49:35.500 --> 00:49:36.469
<v Gayithri> Oh, beautiful.

00:49:37.929 --> 00:49:43.669
<v Farhat> So, yeah, so these are something that I have learned in the process in my practice.

00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:48.369
<v Farhat> Not something that I was acquainted, frankly speaking, I was not acquainted with.

00:49:48.369 --> 00:49:50.329
<v Farhat> I just picked up.

00:49:50.359 --> 00:49:50.629
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:49:50.629 --> 00:49:52.019
<v Farhat> I picked up from here...

00:49:52.029 --> 00:50:02.589
<v Farhat> And I also, just to tell you one more person like Keri Smith is somebody I draw a lot from her work.

00:50:02.949 --> 00:50:11.609
<v Farhat> So Keri Smith, she's an artist, but she has a beautiful encapsulating journals that she creates for artists and scientists.

00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:21.039
<v Farhat> And those are some interesting, very interesting ways of observing the world perhaps in the ways that you might not have even seen the world.

00:50:21.359 --> 00:50:28.009
<v Farhat> So she has those ways go to collect this thing and collect that thing and do something with that.

00:50:28.329 --> 00:50:29.183
<v Farhat> So it's very, very...

00:50:29.183 --> 00:50:41.489
<v Farhat> There are some hundreds of things that she asked you to do, and that has really helped me also to say, "Oh, wow, this is something that I can do with my class to really get them started with things."

00:50:41.999 --> 00:50:49.289
<v Farhat> So it's really nice to use those and that also I picked up from here definitely.

00:50:49.289 --> 00:50:50.614
<v Gayithri> Brilliant.

00:50:51.939 --> 00:50:56.649
<v Gayithri> Any challenges that you would like to share as you have been doing this work?

00:50:57.799 --> 00:50:58.299
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:50:58.799 --> 00:51:04.869
<v Gayithri> I know you already mentioned a few of just from your personal space, but then anything?

00:51:05.009 --> 00:51:05.249
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:51:06.619 --> 00:51:17.759
<v Farhat> I think as I told you, no, this fact that, I have to really be mindful of the fact that I'm not teaching science.

00:51:21.299 --> 00:51:31.419
<v Farhat> I cannot overwhelm them, the students with thick description or make the lectures boring or not even lectures.

00:51:31.419 --> 00:51:33.159
<v Farhat> I mean, we have studios.

00:51:33.169 --> 00:51:33.889
<v Farhat> So from nine to four, right.

00:51:33.909 --> 00:51:45.769
<v Farhat> So it's like, how do I really help them to grasp things that I'm fascinated with and also that fascinates them, right?

00:51:46.339 --> 00:51:57.119
<v Farhat> So I have to really think about how to make it very light, but also provocative but also interesting for them to really fascinate them.

00:51:57.409 --> 00:52:04.419
<v Farhat> So those are challenges that I have to really work on to really make it light for them and also interesting.

00:52:04.879 --> 00:52:12.769
<v Farhat> And another challenge that I face is because of this interdisciplinarity, I do not get enough resource materials to rely on.

00:52:14.889 --> 00:52:19.269
<v Farhat> There are not like practical examples that I can see and say, "Oh yeah, this is really good.

00:52:19.339 --> 00:52:20.919
<v Farhat> Can I try this in my class?"

00:52:21.389 --> 00:52:30.109
<v Farhat> So those are some things that I find it challenging and at least these two is something that I can think of.

00:52:30.129 --> 00:52:30.399
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:52:31.209 --> 00:52:39.339
<v Farhat> And really look not make it more boring, but use all different kinds of senses that I can to make it very interesting.

00:52:39.889 --> 00:52:53.459
<v Farhat> And because these students are not like the traditional science students, but they are very creative students and they have left science behind because of the reason that it was boring.

00:52:56.459 --> 00:52:56.919
<v Gayithri> Interesting.

00:52:58.899 --> 00:52:59.369
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:52:59.909 --> 00:53:15.039
<v Gayithri> How do you see your work in relation to some of the social issues that are like either ongoing or that, social issues in India?

00:53:15.319 --> 00:53:24.233
<v Gayithri> How do you hope, or whom do you hope is benefiting from your work and how do you see your work contributing to some of those?

00:53:24.299 --> 00:53:34.729
<v Farhat> I think as I mentioned earlier as well, that I'm, frankly speaking, I have not been really engaging deeply in the social issues.

00:53:34.959 --> 00:53:42.199
<v Farhat> I'm just learning more and more with respect to design and how design leads to social change.

00:53:42.659 --> 00:53:54.149
<v Farhat> But more importantly, I've been exploring gender a lot, gender issues and how designers could be more sensitive to this issues when they're designing, right.

00:53:54.479 --> 00:54:06.709
<v Farhat> So I really help students to use the gender lens when they are looking at when they come up with certain things, when they design, be it any content, be it an app or visual materials.

00:54:07.169 --> 00:54:09.629
<v Farhat> I use that to say whether...

00:54:09.739 --> 00:54:19.649
<v Farhat> So I'll share you an example of one of the students who came for testing one of the apps that he had designed.

00:54:20.349 --> 00:54:22.429
<v Farhat> And he said Farhatm=, "Can you help me?

00:54:22.699 --> 00:54:24.359
<v Farhat> Can you be a user test for me?"

00:54:24.359 --> 00:54:25.979
<v Farhat> I said, "Yes, why not?"

00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:34.499
<v Farhat> And what that app was about…How women….It was for women and how women could...

00:54:34.579 --> 00:54:39.539
<v Farhat> He had designed an app to help women manage their time.

00:54:40.089 --> 00:54:43.739
<v Farhat> And so family time, how much time are you spending with your family?

00:54:43.759 --> 00:54:48.009
<v Farhat> How much time are you spending with your work, how much time?

00:54:48.009 --> 00:55:00.459
<v Farhat> And it's like, when I first start a homepage that comes up is that, "Hey," it's like a pie chart, which tells me that, "Today I've spent only two hours with my family and more in my workplace."

00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:03.029
<v Farhat> And then it tells me, it's like red in color.

00:55:03.099 --> 00:55:06.059
<v Farhat> I said, "Wow, why does it have to remind me?

00:55:06.119 --> 00:55:14.459
<v Farhat> Is this my mother-in-law, or is this my husband who's telling me that I have to spend so much time with my family?"

00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:15.759
<v Farhat> I mean, who is this?

00:55:16.089 --> 00:55:21.199
<v Gayithri> Not spending time with my family is being made bad, just because of the colors that you choosing.

00:55:21.209 --> 00:55:21.589
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:55:21.669 --> 00:55:26.869
<v Farhat> Not only colors that you choose, but I know how much time I have spent with my family.

00:55:27.299 --> 00:55:32.889
<v Farhat> I don't need another app to tell me that I have to spend time with my family.

00:55:33.589 --> 00:55:36.389
<v Farhat> Who are you who is going to tell me to say that?

00:55:36.739 --> 00:55:42.269
<v Farhat> Hey, it's like society dictating that, don't spend too much time out there.

00:55:42.299 --> 00:55:43.979
<v Farhat> You have to spend time with your family.

00:55:45.849 --> 00:55:47.464
<v Farhat> And then it was an eye opener for him.

00:55:47.669 --> 00:55:50.499
<v Farhat> He said, "I'm so sorry, but this entire app is for women."

00:55:50.799 --> 00:55:52.119
<v Farhat> I said, "Why not for men?

00:55:52.159 --> 00:55:54.359
<v Farhat> I mean, why should it be for women only?

00:55:54.859 --> 00:55:58.699
<v Farhat> Why are you not telling the man that he's not spending time with the family?

00:55:58.699 --> 00:56:01.359
<v Farhat> Why are you telling me that I'm not spending time with my family?"

00:56:01.969 --> 00:56:03.749
<v Farhat> So he said, "Now I cannot change it.

00:56:03.759 --> 00:56:06.769
<v Farhat> This is my last iterations that I did."

00:56:06.829 --> 00:56:07.719
<v Farhat> I said, "I don't know.

00:56:08.059 --> 00:56:10.289
<v Farhat> I cannot say yes to it.

00:56:10.329 --> 00:56:12.109
<v Farhat> I disapprove of this."

00:56:13.889 --> 00:56:22.849
<v Farhat> These are some things, some, the lens that I use in my practice and also help student look at that.

00:56:22.859 --> 00:56:34.299
<v Farhat> For example, one of the courses that I facilitated was to just analyze textbooks using the gender lens and visual materials that are there in textbooks, in NCERT textbooks.

00:56:35.129 --> 00:56:47.169
<v Farhat> Those are used by children, but how certain activities are portrayed as being done by boys or certain by girls.So those are something that look at.

00:56:48.709 --> 00:56:51.429
<v Farhat> I have been, as I told you, I've been facilitating this.

00:56:51.499 --> 00:56:55.399
<v Farhat> I facilitated one science, technology and society.

00:56:55.649 --> 00:57:10.069
<v Farhat> I'm really intrigued and I want to really develop that also for students, not to provoke them, but to really help them get a understanding of that.

00:57:10.489 --> 00:57:28.749
<v Farhat> And lately, for example, I have found that, design, my understanding of design has changed a lot, and I have seen design can be empowering as well as it could be, taking away powers from you as well.

00:57:29.459 --> 00:57:43.159
<v Farhat> So that I think is how design could bring about social change through equity and through empowering the users with participatory approaches is what's something that I truly...

00:57:43.979 --> 00:57:50.189
<v Farhat> I mean, I do not practice that per se, but I believe that it can do that.

00:57:50.479 --> 00:57:50.749
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:57:50.749 --> 00:57:51.604
<v Gayithri> Brilliant.

00:57:52.459 --> 00:57:53.059
<v Gayithri> Beautiful.

00:57:53.549 --> 00:57:56.889
<v Gayithri> And I will bring this up later.

00:57:56.929 --> 00:57:58.479
<v Gayithri> I thought I'll just email you.

00:57:58.559 --> 00:57:59.339
<v Gayithri> I don't know if you...

00:57:59.549 --> 00:58:03.349
<v Gayithri> Have you read Design Justice by Sasha Costanza-Chock?

00:58:03.709 --> 00:58:05.369
<v Farhat> No, no, please share that with me.

00:58:05.419 --> 00:58:05.819
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:58:06.379 --> 00:58:13.959
<v Gayithri> The PDF is fully available online, and that is one of the books, which I think you will just be like, "Yep, yep.

00:58:14.149 --> 00:58:14.359
<v Gayithri> Yep.

00:58:15.369 --> 00:58:15.539
<v Gayithri> Yep."

00:58:16.359 --> 00:58:30.269
<v Gayithri> And she's I think at MIT, sorry, it's not even, she, it's they’re in MIT from what I remember, and they share, I think it is about a course that they designed.

00:58:30.609 --> 00:58:41.257
<v Gayithri> Very similar, like taking a participatory approach to about designing for a community and being very intentional about it from the very design of it.

00:58:41.739 --> 00:58:42.139
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:58:42.349 --> 00:58:43.089
<v Gayithri> And have-

00:58:43.959 --> 00:58:44.229
<v Farhat> Sorry.

00:58:44.229 --> 00:58:44.939
<v Farhat> No, no, no.

00:58:44.979 --> 00:58:45.519
<v Farhat> Have you heard?

00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:45.839
<v Farhat> Sorry.

00:58:46.479 --> 00:58:48.549
<v Gayithri> No, no, no.

00:58:48.549 --> 00:58:50.079
<v Gayithri> Like IT for change, I'm not-

00:58:50.649 --> 00:58:51.109
<v Farhat> Yes, yes-

00:58:51.259 --> 00:58:51.499
<v Gayithri> Yes.

00:58:51.509 --> 00:58:51.729
<v Farhat> Okay.

00:58:51.829 --> 00:58:58.799
<v Farhat> I applied for the job there, but they wanted somebody to know Kannada as the first language.

00:58:58.869 --> 00:58:59.919
<v Gayithri> Ah, yeah.

00:59:00.629 --> 00:59:00.839
<v Gayithri> Okay.

00:59:00.839 --> 00:59:00.919
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:59:01.069 --> 00:59:19.189
<v Gayithri> I don't know them, but I have heard a lot about them and it sounded like maybe it would be like a good fit for that app class to then be like, hear a few things, because I remember one of their examples having an app for women to track their menstrual cycle.

00:59:19.479 --> 00:59:19.959
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

00:59:20.339 --> 00:59:20.689
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:26.149
<v Gayithri> Even to be able to openly talk about this would be one thing, so.

00:59:26.149 --> 00:59:26.609
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:59:27.069 --> 00:59:34.139
<v Farhat> No, I think, I mean, I am influenced by some of the people's work here at Srishti.

00:59:35.279 --> 00:59:36.419
<v Farhat> It's going to your next question,

00:59:37.159 --> 00:59:38.949
<v Gayithri> exactly that.

00:59:38.969 --> 00:59:39.769
<v Gayithri> Please take me there.

00:59:39.769 --> 00:59:41.849
<v Gayithri> What are the ongoing research,

00:59:43.719 --> 00:59:47.112
<v Farhat> I think, yeah, I think there is a group it's called Design Beku, and

00:59:47.112 --> 00:59:47.125
<v Gayithri> Design Beku?

00:59:47.125 --> 00:59:47.131
<v Farhat> Yeah.

00:59:47.131 --> 00:59:47.221
<v Farhat> And it's a collective of designers and social activists and architects, who really work...

00:59:47.221 --> 01:00:11.949
<v Farhat> Believe that design needs to be participatory and co-designed with the community because in order to bring social change and you have to trust the community for its knowledge that they bring, they come with, right.

01:00:12.339 --> 01:00:18.829
<v Farhat> It's like you have to, in order to really bring about change, you have to empower them with the tools.

01:00:18.829 --> 01:00:24.009
<v Farhat> And so they have been working on this and I am really influenced.

01:00:24.169 --> 01:00:31.519
<v Farhat> And one of the in fact, colleagues, Naveen Bagalkot, he had given a TED Talk also on this.

01:00:31.829 --> 01:00:37.809
<v Farhat> And quoting the similar example that you mentioned about an app for menstrual cycle.

01:00:37.959 --> 01:00:39.949
<v Farhat> I think he also mentioned this one of the...

01:00:41.669 --> 01:00:45.429
<v Farhat> So I think my understanding of design has changed a lot.

01:00:45.789 --> 01:00:51.219
<v Farhat> A lot evolved because I had this assumption that designers are something like one individual.

01:00:51.259 --> 01:00:56.399
<v Farhat> We are the saviors of the world and they have all the cerebral capacities with them.

01:00:56.879 --> 01:01:09.949
<v Farhat> But coming here and working with real designers and seeing, especially the ones who work at the grassroots level to really see that, how it needs to be participatory and to understand this entire process of...

01:01:10.889 --> 01:01:20.249
<v Farhat> And just to learning about the people, the community, the users, in their social context.

01:01:20.249 --> 01:01:25.819
<v Farhat> And that it is, and acknowledging that it's very complex.

01:01:26.569 --> 01:01:32.279
<v Farhat> Not denying the fact that it's not complex, acknowledging that it isn't very complex and really to...

01:01:33.089 --> 01:01:40.859
<v Farhat> That can only be done, but if you empower them because they understand their needs better.

01:01:40.859 --> 01:01:40.889
<v Farhat> Right.

01:01:41.149 --> 01:01:44.489
<v Farhat> So I think that was quite revealing for me when I...

01:01:45.159 --> 01:02:10.729
<v Farhat> And this group is really is something that I look up to, and I really appreciate whatever was going on in Homi Bhabha Centre where they're trying to include design as a general education, because I believe that it all stems from our attitude towards everything, towards any problem, any crisis.

01:02:11.059 --> 01:02:27.969
<v Farhat> If I learn from my in general education, that I am not a problem solver or I cannot understand my own needs and there be somebody else, a designer with a creative ability coming and solving my problems.

01:02:29.169 --> 01:02:33.499
<v Farhat> That attitude itself is catering to creation of this creative bunch.

01:02:33.509 --> 01:02:43.804
<v Farhat> I mean, so I believe that design is ability, has to be taught, and it is a natural ability and it has to be there in school curriculum.

01:02:44.149 --> 01:02:56.359
<v Farhat> I mean, the idea that we have this material crisis, we have this ecological crisis and it cannot be just solved by one particular designer sitting out there.

01:02:56.849 --> 01:03:06.540
<v Farhat> And so, I mean, I was reading this article by this guy called Fuller and he was quoting this.

01:03:07.379 --> 01:03:09.919
<v Farhat> It's about against design.

01:03:10.919 --> 01:03:12.799
<v Farhat> And so he says-

01:03:13.309 --> 01:03:14.439
<v Gayithri> Is this Fuller Buckminster?

01:03:15.499 --> 01:03:16.319
<v Farhat> No, no, no.

01:03:16.499 --> 01:03:18.959
<v Farhat> I think, let me just see what his full name is.

01:03:22.219 --> 01:03:24.609
<v Farhat> His name is Jarett Fuller.

01:03:25.039 --> 01:03:25.709
<v Gayithri> Oh, okay.

01:03:26.889 --> 01:03:35.949
<v Farhat> And he is, it's a small essay that he's written and quite like, I really like the way that he says against design.

01:03:36.319 --> 01:03:44.349
<v Farhat> And he says that, "A few decades ago designers said, Designers used to claim, that we need more leadership role.

01:03:44.349 --> 01:03:52.609
<v Farhat> And if we get more leadership roles, we will create social change.'" Now you see designers more in the leadership role.

01:03:52.839 --> 01:03:53.789
<v Farhat> Things are changing.

01:03:53.869 --> 01:03:58.399
<v Farhat> Today we see more and more designers coming up in this and what has had happened?

01:03:58.899 --> 01:03:59.359
<v Farhat> Nothing.

01:03:59.369 --> 01:04:05.059
<v Farhat> There are more posters, there are more design thinking workshops, but no social change.

01:04:05.849 --> 01:04:13.189
<v Farhat> So he's saying, because design today is like really is about maintaining the status quo.

01:04:13.859 --> 01:04:17.494
<v Farhat> We do not challenge the status quo itself.

01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:21.529
<v Farhat> Designers today are just really repeating what has already been done-

01:04:21.679 --> 01:04:22.329
<v Gayithri> Perpetuating-

01:04:22.329 --> 01:04:22.389
<v ... Farhat> perpetuating that.

01:04:22.389 --> 01:04:22.419
<v ... Farhat> Yeah.

01:04:22.419 --> 01:04:40.139
<v ... Farhat> And today, the same capitalist society, which is saying, is actually creating those homelessness, all the social inequity are themselves saying that what creativity is.

01:04:41.129 --> 01:04:51.239
<v ... Farhat> And so it's like they themselves are defining creativity and saying that designers are going to solve this and designers in turn just maintains this status quo.

01:04:51.239 --> 01:04:53.359
<v ... Farhat> So things are not changing, right.

01:04:54.669 --> 01:05:01.162
<v ... Farhat> So I think that was really a very beautiful article about how designers need to bring in social change by actually decolonizing it and democratizing it and trusting the communities and to take...

01:05:01.162 --> 01:05:01.214
<v ... Farhat> Intervene creatively in their own ways.

01:05:01.214 --> 01:05:01.223
<v ... Farhat> Yeah.

01:05:01.223 --> 01:05:01.231
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

01:05:01.231 --> 01:05:01.362
<v Gayithri> Any other project that comes to your mind that's currently going on that excites you?

01:05:01.362 --> 01:05:26.949
<v Gayithri> I know you mentioned Design Beku and is Beku like Beku Kannada?

01:05:26.949 --> 01:05:27.899
<v Gayithri> Just wanted to make sure.

01:05:27.919 --> 01:05:32.249
<v Farhat> I think one that I shared with you about Arzu Mistry.

01:05:32.249 --> 01:05:39.979
<v Farhat> She's the one who I'm working with as at Srishti.

01:05:39.979 --> 01:05:47.009
<v Farhat> She's a program Dean and for creative education and she has been working also with...

01:05:47.289 --> 01:05:57.659
<v Farhat> But she is more of a facilitator and educator and I think what she does is she learns with the community and she also...

01:05:59.189 --> 01:06:10.939
<v Farhat> It is her way is about facilitating livelihoods in communities and how the community works together.

01:06:11.439 --> 01:06:32.739
<v Farhat> So I think that is very empowering, to really see that you go in and work with community and create livelihoods around them and what they could do to really empower the communities to see and realize what strength and skills they have and what they can do with it.

01:06:33.299 --> 01:06:37.979
<v Farhat> So that is something that also I admire the work in Srishti.

01:06:38.219 --> 01:06:38.429
<v Farhat> Yeah.

01:06:39.149 --> 01:06:39.489
<v Gayithri> Beautiful.

01:06:40.129 --> 01:06:40.569
<v Gayithri> Beautiful.

01:06:40.849 --> 01:06:50.909
<v Gayithri> Do you want to add anything about, especially given that we are still in the midst of pandemic, anything that has shifted for you for the work-

01:06:51.709 --> 01:06:52.129
<v Farhat> Yeah.

01:06:52.179 --> 01:06:52.789
<v Farhat> I don't know.

01:06:59.669 --> 01:07:01.819
<v Farhat> It's been very, very challenging, I think.

01:07:02.969 --> 01:07:21.399
<v Farhat> I think what has happened is I believe there are some things which were, some skills, which were at the core as my practice has gone to the periphery and some which were at the periphery has become more at the core.

01:07:22.739 --> 01:07:23.929
<v Gayithri> Do you want to give an example?

01:07:23.929 --> 01:07:24.349
<v Gayithri> I'm very-

01:07:24.619 --> 01:07:28.109
<v Farhat> I mean, just an example of say technology use.

01:07:31.699 --> 01:07:37.599
<v Farhat> It's, who cared about using technology or using but that's a skill that is required now.

01:07:38.419 --> 01:08:02.319
<v Farhat> I mean, I'm just giving a very basic example of how something like a use of technology just using devices to really record things and work on teams, on Google Meet and that which was an interface has become more…not only just for me, but for, I think any other teachers, right.

01:08:02.349 --> 01:08:07.949
<v Farhat> Those have become more at the center than actually facilitating learning.

01:08:08.819 --> 01:08:12.721
<v Farhat> So I think that has been a great shift because of this and definitely, I think these are some things are for, what do you call that?

01:08:12.721 --> 01:08:12.754
<v Farhat> I mean, you cannot change....

01:08:12.754 --> 01:08:12.780
<v Farhat> I mean, unchange things.

01:08:12.780 --> 01:08:12.800
<v Farhat> It's like that.

01:08:12.800 --> 01:08:12.846
<v Farhat> I mean something which are permanent, so.

01:08:12.846 --> 01:08:12.872
<v Gayithri> There’s no going back.

01:08:12.872 --> 01:08:12.885
<v Farhat> Yeah, exactly.

01:08:12.885 --> 01:08:12.938
<v Farhat> So I think that is, but yeah, definitely.

01:08:12.938 --> 01:08:12.997
<v Farhat> It's also been empowering in some ways, at times.

01:08:12.997 --> 01:08:13.217
<v Farhat> You are talking to me right now, right.

01:08:13.217 --> 01:08:13.441
<v Farhat> At different times, right.

01:08:13.441 --> 01:08:13.944
<v Farhat> But we wouldn't have perhaps thought about it, maybe.

01:08:13.944 --> 01:08:14.000
<v Farhat> Yeah.

01:08:14.000 --> 01:09:08.299
<v Farhat> We could have, but I'm saying, I can actually listen to lectures outside and be part of it, or maybe give webinars or listen to webinars or maybe invite professors from different cities and lectures.

01:09:08.299 --> 01:09:14.729
<v Farhat> So I think it's also been empowering, but the fact is that, it's empowering for whom, is the biggest question, right.

01:09:14.939 --> 01:09:20.549
<v Farhat> And it is who is being excluded and who is being included is the larger questions.

01:09:21.609 --> 01:09:21.999
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

01:09:22.269 --> 01:09:22.629
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

01:09:23.889 --> 01:09:34.339
<v Gayithri> Any work that you would like to see more of like moving forward in your domain, in your community, in your space?

01:09:35.229 --> 01:09:35.609
<v Farhat> Yeah.

01:09:35.629 --> 01:09:44.129
<v Farhat> I think this fact that to really look at design more in the...

01:09:46.529 --> 01:10:10.779
<v Farhat> I mean the work that Design Beku and these people do, I think I would want more designers also, who are coming into design research to take up those projects which are more community centric and not client based but more catered to the needs of the communities and work with them.

01:10:10.779 --> 01:10:20.189
<v Farhat> I think I would personally would love to see more of those kind of work going on through design and bringing about changes through that.

01:10:20.189 --> 01:10:20.469
<v Farhat> Yeah.

01:10:20.719 --> 01:10:22.299
<v Farhat> Because design can be really powerful.

01:10:22.299 --> 01:10:31.349
<v Farhat> It can be really powerful, but it can also be something that can take away powers from people and discriminating.

01:10:32.129 --> 01:10:32.849
<v Gayithri> True, true.

01:10:33.419 --> 01:10:37.599
<v Farhat> I've been using this article.

01:10:37.869 --> 01:10:43.659
<v Farhat> I don't know whether you've read this, the Do Artifacts Have Politics by Langdon Winner?

01:10:43.679 --> 01:10:44.974
<v Farhat> It's a very old article.

01:10:45.469 --> 01:10:46.089
<v Gayithri> Oh my god.

01:10:46.089 --> 01:10:46.329
<v Gayithri> Okay.

01:10:46.329 --> 01:10:47.469
<v Gayithri> This sounds very-

01:10:47.469 --> 01:10:48.549
<v Farhat> It's a very, very old article.

01:10:48.739 --> 01:10:55.169
<v Farhat> I think in 1980s was Langdon Winner, Do Artifacts Have Politics and-

01:10:55.929 --> 01:10:57.109
<v Gayithri> Right now, yeah, go on.

01:10:57.109 --> 01:10:57.329
<v Gayithri> Go on.

01:10:57.569 --> 01:11:00.219
<v Farhat> And yeah, he gives examples of how.

01:11:00.789 --> 01:11:07.629
<v Farhat> He doesn't mention design, but he gives examples from the architect world and architecture.

01:11:07.659 --> 01:11:18.689
<v Farhat> And he says that the biases and the assumptions of the designers stems into their products that they make.

01:11:19.379 --> 01:11:28.369
<v Farhat> And how it can be discriminating, how it can be racist in their product.

01:11:28.829 --> 01:11:30.449
<v Farhat> And you don't even realize that.

01:11:30.779 --> 01:11:32.309
<v Farhat> It becomes part of the system.

01:11:32.829 --> 01:11:32.899
<v Farhat> Yeah.

01:11:32.899 --> 01:11:34.739
<v Farhat> And how it can be discriminating.

01:11:34.739 --> 01:11:37.539
<v Farhat> I think that was a very powerful article.

01:11:38.889 --> 01:11:44.219
<v Farhat> I had used that with one of my course, but it was too heavy for them to digest.

01:11:45.029 --> 01:11:45.169
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

01:11:45.169 --> 01:11:45.369
<v Gayithri> I know.

01:11:45.369 --> 01:11:45.819
<v Gayithri> It's right here.

01:11:45.969 --> 01:11:46.439
<v Gayithri> I found it.

01:11:46.549 --> 01:11:47.649
<v Gayithri> Thank you so much for that.

01:11:48.829 --> 01:11:49.309
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

01:11:49.309 --> 01:11:51.609
<v Gayithri> So what would be your advice for anybody?

01:11:51.609 --> 01:12:00.679
<v Gayithri> Because you said, a lot of designers who think with the community towards making the world better for all of us.

01:12:00.939 --> 01:12:09.259
<v Gayithri> What would be your advice for any newcomer who may or may not be familiar with these contexts, especially in India?

01:12:10.239 --> 01:12:11.239
<v Farhat> I don't know.

01:12:11.259 --> 01:12:22.049
<v Farhat> I mean, I personally don't feel that I have the expertise to really advice or education design educators or design educational researchers.

01:12:22.919 --> 01:12:44.359
<v Farhat> But as I said that, that the idea is to really widen our understanding of design and to look at it not from this one designer perspective that he or she is going to solve the world's problem, but to really see that everybody has a capacity.

01:12:46.029 --> 01:12:47.909
<v Farhat> I think we just have to change the lens.

01:12:48.009 --> 01:13:14.359
<v Farhat> That's what my advice would be to really see the design and that has to be taught in the classrooms where we teach to see how design can be a way of giving more power and can be empowering as well as can be democratizing.

01:13:17.409 --> 01:13:21.059
<v Farhat> And there is how do we remove this politics from design?

01:13:21.789 --> 01:13:30.579
<v Farhat> So that, I think my, I don't know what advice to really give, but just to see that we have to use a different lens to look at design.

01:13:31.449 --> 01:13:32.619
<v Farhat> I have changed my lens.

01:13:33.379 --> 01:13:33.968
<v Farhat> I have, by being in practice.

01:13:33.968 --> 01:13:34.339
<v Farhat> I don't know.

01:13:41.179 --> 01:13:41.409
<v Farhat> Sorry.

01:13:41.409 --> 01:13:41.709
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

01:13:42.019 --> 01:13:42.919
<v Gayithri> Or maybe it is not...

01:13:42.969 --> 01:13:45.189
<v Gayithri> It's that there's always going to be politics.

01:13:45.229 --> 01:13:51.259
<v Gayithri> It could be even about what futures are you envisioning or what are you imagining and designing for?

01:13:51.259 --> 01:13:51.279
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

01:13:51.899 --> 01:13:52.209
<v Farhat> Yeah.

01:13:52.239 --> 01:14:02.609
<v Farhat> I think that is true because even as designers, if we look at the futures, it's like, whose future are we talking about?

01:14:02.669 --> 01:14:08.339
<v Farhat> And what futures are we imagining or reimagining?

01:14:08.369 --> 01:14:15.299
<v Farhat> With this COVID, for example, you see that there has been the diversity is like, has been starkly in our face.

01:14:17.819 --> 01:14:19.079
<v Farhat> It's like, has this...

01:14:20.879 --> 01:14:25.169
<v Farhat> I mean, things which were we assuming we have shattered.

01:14:25.179 --> 01:14:28.939
<v Farhat> And we now see that so many people were excluded, right.

01:14:30.579 --> 01:14:35.829
<v Farhat> And when we are designing for the future, I hear a lot about future design for the future.

01:14:36.179 --> 01:14:39.419
<v Farhat> When the future is so uncertain, what do we...

01:14:39.769 --> 01:14:41.349
<v Farhat> How do we really envision, right.

01:14:41.499 --> 01:14:54.519
<v Farhat> And of course we have to design for the future and we have to really look at, but I think we have to really look at the past as well as to what we have done to really see what kind of future we want, right.

01:14:54.579 --> 01:15:07.249
<v Farhat> I mean, and if you say that, I believe that, yeah, of course, new designers should be looking at sustainability and social equity as a prime priority in their practice.

01:15:08.429 --> 01:15:20.789
<v Farhat> That should be the core and the rest others, will come in, but designing for sustainability in terms of not just the ecologically sustainability, but sustainability in that, in every aspect.

01:15:21.479 --> 01:15:26.039
<v Farhat> I think that is something that I would maybe say.

01:15:27.049 --> 01:15:40.249
<v Farhat> And then really to see, ask more tough questions and hard questions as to whose future and what priority and whose priority are we going to take?

01:15:41.129 --> 01:15:41.439
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

01:15:42.329 --> 01:15:42.629
<v Gayithri> Yeah.

01:15:42.949 --> 01:15:44.469
<v Gayithri> Thank you so much.

01:15:44.569 --> 01:15:46.159
<v Gayithri> That was beautiful.

01:15:46.339 --> 01:15:55.929
<v Gayithri> And very empowering to actually have those thoughts, have those questions as we go back and continue to do our work in our world.

01:15:56.139 --> 01:15:57.949
<v Gayithri> Thank you so much Farhat.

01:15:57.999 --> 01:15:58.219
<v Farhat> Thank you guys.

01:15:58.349 --> 01:15:59.639
<v Farhat> Thank you for listening to me.

01:15:59.639 --> 01:15:59.859
<v Farhat> I don't know.

01:15:59.959 --> 01:16:01.615
<v Farhat> I was just talking a lot, blah, blah.

01:16:01.789 --> 01:16:04.089
<v Gayithri> No, no, no.

01:16:04.089 --> 01:16:04.689
<v Gayithri> Not at all.

01:16:04.719 --> 01:16:05.289
<v Gayithri> Not at all.